Oklahoma State Cowboys

[PurpleOnWhite]

It's quite the conundrum. History holds Dwight Eisenhower as the general who was the leader of the Allies in WWII. He is portrayed as the one who lead the free world to victory. And I doubt he fired a shot. Many times it takes a leader to pull a group of people together to achieve more than they could individually.

[tmcats]

profession salaries are an objective way of judging societal contributions, not the individual person. i'm sorry i confused that message.

You judge societal contributions by salary. That surprises me.

I would value the societal contributions of a high school coach working to teach life lessons to inner city kids a lot higher than Bill Self.

I would value the societal contributions of an engineer who develops a product to serve people a lot higher than his CEO.

I would rate the societal contributions of a researcher who discovers a cancer treatment higher than his CEO.

i would value my own contributions as a technician who served on teams developing new products higher than when I later became manager of those teams making a lot more money.

well we disagree. when i worked at chevron it was mostly with highly compensated chemical engineers who were all about problem solving. one of them, dave o'rielly, was an irishman, who earlier in life was a track star across the pond during his college years in dublin.

i worked directly for him. he went on to lead the company as ceo for a decade. he was excellent.

it's always heartfelt to say it's the workers. but in reality it's the leadership that drives or torpedos success. dave was a good dude. i never saw him act anything other than as a gentleman. his compensation package was $22 million.

again, in capital markets we value professions based on pay. that says nothing about the quality of the individual, just the job they are doing. by the way, my father was a union bricklayer. so i know the other side of the argument having lived it myself, so save me the chest thumping.

[xtrawildcat]

Well we disagree.

I think it is the individual and what they contribute to society regardless what they are paid.

Mother Teresa
Jonas Salk
Martin Luther King
Ken Lay from Enron

Charlie Weis got paid a lot of money to coach KU. Did he provide more societal value than an inner city high school coach"?

[katlander]

Obviously, this is complicated. We tend to value the worth of ourselves and others in monetary terms, but true value involves many factors. There is economic value, societal value, familial value, civic value, spiritual value and other forms of value ad infinitum. That is why we have our job, our family, our church, our civic involvement and many other aspects of our lives. Few of us are superstars who check all boxes. We have to decide what means the most to us. Tom Cratchet was viewed a failure by old Eb but his contributions to his family made him rich beyond all of Scrooges accumulated fortunes. I love the free enterprise system where our job can be the defining facet of our life. I also love our freedom to choose to make other aspects of life more important than career success. Jimmy Carter was a President but probably brought more value with his involvement with habitat for humanity.

America is great because we have the freedom to bring our own special kind of value and we are all better off because of it.

[tmcats]

Well we disagree.

I think it is the individual and what they contribute to society regardless what they are paid.

Mother Teresa
Jonas Salk
Martin Luther King
Ken Lay from Enron

Charlie Weis got paid a lot of money to coach KU. Did he provide more societal value than an inner city high school coach"?

of course you're writing all sorts of straw man arguments about things i never said which is typical of today's debate. just turn something however it fits ones argument and then beat thy chest in moralistic triumph. once more, this is what i wrote: profession salaries are an objective way of judging societal contributions, not the individual person.

[SCKSCat]

From the University of Illinois student newspaper, July 2020...
The Oklahoma State men’s basketball program was hit with a slew of punishments on Friday, which included a ban from 2021 postseason play, for NCAA violations that took place during current Illini coach Brad Underwood’s tenure.

The violations are specifically tied to the accepting of bribes to steer players toward representation from former Cowboy assistant coach Lamont Evans, who was hired by Underwood, taking place sometime between 2016 and 2017.

Underwood left Stillwater to accept the job at Illinois following a loss to Michigan in the 2017 NCAA Tournament, and Evans, upon being charged by the FBI as part of a sting operation to catch major college basketball coaches committing felonies in recruiting, was fired in 2017.
-----
The OSU program has never really recovered and Boynton has been trying to clean up Underwood's mess. Thankfully, Coach Tang took over a clean program run by Weber.

[xtrawildcat]

Well we disagree.

I think it is the individual and what they contribute to society regardless what they are paid.

Mother Teresa
Jonas Salk
Martin Luther King
Ken Lay from Enron

Charlie Weis got paid a lot of money to coach KU. Did he provide more societal value than an inner city high school coach"?

of course you're writing all sorts of straw man arguments about things i never said which is typical of today's debate. just turn something however it fits ones argument and then beat thy chest in moralistic triumph. once more, this is what i wrote: profession salaries are an objective way of judging societal contributions, not the individual person.

More straw men for you.

If it is salary by profession, you do not value the societal contributions of priests, ministers, social workers, teachers, police,etc compared to financial managers.

Entrepreneurs as a profession do not make but make big contributions to society. Some cash in financially. Some do not.

Reporters as a profession do not make much. Some cash in.

Coaches as a profession do not make much. Some cash in.

[stlcatfan]

From the University of Illinois student newspaper, July 2020...
The Oklahoma State men’s basketball program was hit with a slew of punishments on Friday, which included a ban from 2021 postseason play, for NCAA violations that took place during current Illini coach Brad Underwood’s tenure.

The violations are specifically tied to the accepting of bribes to steer players toward representation from former Cowboy assistant coach Lamont Evans, who was hired by Underwood, taking place sometime between 2016 and 2017.

Underwood left Stillwater to accept the job at Illinois following a loss to Michigan in the 2017 NCAA Tournament, and Evans, upon being charged by the FBI as part of a sting operation to catch major college basketball coaches committing felonies in recruiting, was fired in 2017.
-----
The OSU program has never really recovered and Boynton has been trying to clean up Underwood's mess. Thankfully, Coach Tang took over a clean program run by Weber.

Knowing what happened at oSu, I never did understand why some fans wanted to bring Underwood back here after Weber resigned -- even willing to overpay for him to pry him from Illinois. Yes, Weber ran a clean program and I think we got a great coach to come in and take up the mantle.

Tough break for oSu, though. Unlike KU, Kentucky, and UNC, they are not a blue blood in basketball so they couldn't escape punishment for their recruiting violations, even though it appears Underwood escaped punishment.

[SCKSCat]

I vote for fatigue as the reason for the ending.
I have always heard a tired team has the tendency to miss shots, foul more on defense as the offense gets to critical spots quicker, and the opposition gets to loose quicker. I would suspect that rebounding suffers as well.
At the end we were missing shots, fouling, not getting rebounds, and getting out scrambled for loose balls.
Compare this ending to the start of the 2nd half. At the start we seemed quicker, making shots, and out hustled Cyclones.
The Cyclones have a deep bench with a lot of good players. On the TV broadcast, King McClure said ISU wears other teams down. We got wore down.

[xtrawildcat]

I vote for fatigue as the reason for the ending.
I have always heard a tired team has the tendency to miss shots, foul more on defense as the offense gets to critical spots quicker, and the opposition gets to loose quicker. I would suspect that rebounding suffers as well.
At the end we were missing shots, fouling, not getting rebounds, and getting out scrambled for loose balls.
Compare this ending to the start of the 2nd half. At the start we seemed quicker, making shots, and out hustled Cyclones.
The Cyclones have a deep bench with a lot of good players. On the TV broadcast, King McClure said ISU wears other teams down. We got wore down.

I do not think it was fatigue. There were so many trips to the line, players were well rested. Cam only played 20 minutes.
1. We missed shots. Some times that happens at the beginning, middle or end of games.
2. Finiister did not lay on the ground long enough and Tang did not call a time out for refs to review.
3. Mcnair was too busy looking for a block to box out. Got too deep under the bucket when the shot went up and this let ISU tip the ball away that resulted in a killer three.
4. DNG got called for a Phantom foul that gave them two free throws.
5. DNG missed too many free throws.