Interesting Comparison Being Made OSU-KState

[hilltopwildcat]

It's not what you put in but what you put out. Rankings schmankings. Doesn't OSU grant in-state rates for students in SE KS? I see that MU is doing something along those lines.

[Jax]

Wait so does that mean K-State offers similar for students in NE OK?

[ToledoCat#2]

If you're a good enough student, OSU does indeed offer instate tuition to Kansas students, not just in SEK. Had a friend from Wamego whose son got way the best academic deal from OSU several years ago. Several youngsters from my current county got the same deal. However, one started at OSU and got disillusioned and transferred to KSU.

[katlander]

I think KSU has a much more beautiful campus and Manhattan is a much more attractive small city. Aggieville is much more then Eskimo Joes and a few other joints. The coeds at OSU get the nod. The schools are very similar otherwise. I found the OSU campus more attractive then OU but OU had the better Aggieville area. Not sure if I would rather go to college in Norman (Okie City) or in Stillwater. Probably Okie City.

[Hypeman]

If you're a good enough student, OSU does indeed offer instate tuition to Kansas students, not just in SEK. Had a friend from Wamego whose son got way the best academic deal from OSU several years ago. Several youngsters from my current county got the same deal. However, one started at OSU and got disillusioned and transferred to KSU.

You are “absolutely” correct. I pointed out that OSU is growing and KSU is shrinking (KSU FTE’s are down to 16,000 students. That’s the real measure of enrollment, not the 20,000+ number that includes anyone who took a class). I stated it was obvious why, but maybe I’m too close to the university so it’s obvious to me but not others. The reason is $. It is cheaper for Oklahoma and Kansas students to go to OSU and their programs are generally rated equal or higher than KSU’s. KSU tuition is getting high for the central plains.

It is actually very common for top students from Manhattan high school to go to OSU over KSU (if they don’t select KU). They get a similar school and town, a little ways from home, and it is cheaper. It is a perfect choice for Manhattan kids. I believe there are area high school administrators sending their kids to OSU over KSU (actually I know some personally). Frankly, I believe that is very telling.

One last thing, I don’t think this has anything to do with athletics or football. It has to do with budget cuts (that are very small compared to other states), but moreso on the bloated administrative spending on campus. Every time I interact on campus I meet a new assistant or associate something.

[ToledoCat#2]

Costs are KSU are quite definitely negatively affecting enrollment. Those costs have risen gradually over the years and are just now being felt. Kind of like the old boiling the frog story.

Educationally, OSU/KSU are quite the same: OSU better programs in petroleum. KSU better in biz and engineering. Equal in agriculture. OSU communications more conservative than KSU's.

[powercat5000]

If you're a good enough student, OSU does indeed offer instate tuition to Kansas students, not just in SEK. Had a friend from Wamego whose son got way the best academic deal from OSU several years ago. Several youngsters from my current county got the same deal. However, one started at OSU and got disillusioned and transferred to KSU.

You are “absolutely” correct. I pointed out that OSU is growing and KSU is shrinking (KSU FTE’s are down to 16,000 students. That’s the real measure of enrollment, not the 20,000+ number that includes anyone who took a class). I stated it was obvious why, but maybe I’m too close to the university so it’s obvious to me but not others. The reason is $. It is cheaper for Oklahoma and Kansas students to go to OSU and their programs are generally rated equal or higher than KSU’s. KSU tuition is getting high for the central plains.

It is actually very common for top students from Manhattan high school to go to OSU over KSU (if they don’t select KU). They get a similar school and town, a little ways from home, and it is cheaper. It is a perfect choice for Manhattan kids. I believe there are area high school administrators sending their kids to OSU over KSU (actually I know some personally). Frankly, I believe that is very telling.

One last thing, I don’t think this has anything to do with athletics or football. It has to do with budget cuts (that are very small compared to other states), but moreso on the bloated administrative spending on campus. Every time I interact on campus I meet a new assistant or associate something.

And nothing is being done on the Kansas side to try and keep these kids in Kansas instead of going to osu or ou?

[Hypeman]

You are “absolutely” correct. I pointed out that OSU is growing and KSU is shrinking (KSU FTE’s are down to 16,000 students. That’s the real measure of enrollment, not the 20,000+ number that includes anyone who took a class). I stated it was obvious why, but maybe I’m too close to the university so it’s obvious to me but not others. The reason is $. It is cheaper for Oklahoma and Kansas students to go to OSU and their programs are generally rated equal or higher than KSU’s. KSU tuition is getting high for the central plains.

It is actually very common for top students from Manhattan high school to go to OSU over KSU (if they don’t select KU). They get a similar school and town, a little ways from home, and it is cheaper. It is a perfect choice for Manhattan kids. I believe there are area high school administrators sending their kids to OSU over KSU (actually I know some personally). Frankly, I believe that is very telling.

One last thing, I don’t think this has anything to do with athletics or football. It has to do with budget cuts (that are very small compared to other states), but moreso on the bloated administrative spending on campus. Every time I interact on campus I meet a new assistant or associate something.

And nothing is being done on the Kansas side to try and keep these kids in Kansas instead of going to osu or ou?

Yes, KSU is trying hard, by hiring more administrators and recruiting staff for high school kids to talk with when they inquire about the school. Which only adds more cost, the need to raise tuition and fees, and exacerbates the problem.

KSU’s administrators constantly blame state budget cuts, but the cuts are very mild relative to the universities in other states that are attracting students at higher rate than KSU (not including Missouri).

The root of the problem is that KSU has doubled it’s administrative and clerical staff during the last 8 - 10 years while reducing full-time instructional staff and seeing declining enrollment. The trend has excellerated in the last few years. It all started in the last couple years of Wefald due to any number of reasons, Shultz spent like a Uncle Sam to start unsustainable programs in order to pad his resume to get a better job (people around the university knew what he was doing, the clueless but wealthy alumni influencers fell hard for it), now we have a figure head who has no idea what actually goes on on campus and comes from an environment with layers of bureaucracy, so this is all normal.

In addition to add more administrators and clerical staff, the latest plans to fix things include dropping academic standards (especially in grad programs) to increase admissions and retention and to have colleges compete against each other internally for the shrinking pie. That all looks to me like a path to the bottom to me.

The problem for football and the athletic dept. is that they can keep spending hundreds of millions on facilities hoping to keep up with the joneses, but there will become a time when Universities like UT will decide to disassociate for reasons other than athletics. You heard that reasoning from CU and NU when they left the big 12 to rub elbows with more ‘prestigious’ academic programs. In the end, the academic snobs in administration like rubbing elbows with cool athletic types, but they really desire to be academic snobs.

By the way, I’m not making any of this up.

[ToledoCat#2]

Close to right-on, hyper.

[tmcats]

i never liked the general's selection to follow schulz. he is much too old and not from the academic field. always wondered if he wasn't a default selection because they couldn't find a suitable replacement. brownback had placed a cloud over the institution, at least for qualified academics, that made it less than attractive.