FB Players speaking out against KSU Student

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kstatefan1863
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Re: FB Players speaking out against KSU Student

Post by kstatefan1863 » June 29th, 2020, 6:03 pm

stlcatfan wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 5:38 pm
Opensource wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 5:03 pm
K-State athletes are coming together with the support of coaches and administration to take on the racist actions. The only people upset are people who must not like that outcome. They, logically must be fine with existing structural racism and want to live in their fantasy world of equality for all.
With all due respect, your post is classic demagoguery. In truth, what a lot of people are upset about is how the athletes responded to the kid's insensitive joke about George Floyd. It could have and should have been handled much better. By saying publicly they will not play for K-State until a list of demands are met (including expelling McNeil) was not well thought out and ended up making themselves look bad in the process (not to mention, putting the entire university in a bad light).

The administration likely can't kick this kid out of school without risking a lawsuit because his First Amendment rights would be violated. So now what are the athletes going to do? They will either have to find a face-saving way of giving up their demands or transfer to another school. The best thing they could have done is ignore the dumb tweet.
Yes, the kids seemed to have been to quick to respond, I agree. That is probably why their first demands seemed so drastic. These are very young adults, and they were emotional. I hope they learn from this though, and it seems as though they already have. Your post seems to mention that you think they are still demanding that the kid is expelled. Have I posted an article yesterday from the Manhattan Mercury that sounded like it stated they walked that back after discussions with the coaches, student groups, and administrators. They seemed to have a better understanding of the 1st Amendment, and how it applies to this situation. If you look at the message that they created together, with the coaches i believe, it doesn't demand the kid to be expelled. It does say that they want the university to make a stronger policy to protect them from discrimination and harassment though. So I disagree that this puts the university in a bad spot to where they either need to bend to the players or face a law suit. I don't think KSU is going to violate anyone's rights. I do think they are doing the right thing by working with the students to put a better, stronger policy in place to protect it's students.

Opensource
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Post by Opensource » June 29th, 2020, 6:16 pm

kstatefan1863 wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 6:03 pm
stlcatfan wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 5:38 pm


With all due respect, your post is classic demagoguery. In truth, what a lot of people are upset about is how the athletes responded to the kid's insensitive joke about George Floyd. It could have and should have been handled much better. By saying publicly they will not play for K-State until a list of demands are met (including expelling McNeil) was not well thought out and ended up making themselves look bad in the process (not to mention, putting the entire university in a bad light).

The administration likely can't kick this kid out of school without risking a lawsuit because his First Amendment rights would be violated. So now what are the athletes going to do? They will either have to find a face-saving way of giving up their demands or transfer to another school. The best thing they could have done is ignore the dumb tweet.
Yes, the kids seemed to have been to quick to respond, I agree. That is probably why their first demands seemed so drastic. These are very young adults, and they were emotional. I hope they learn from this though, and it seems as though they already have. Your post seems to mention that you think they are still demanding that the kid is expelled. Have I posted an article yesterday from the Manhattan Mercury that sounded like it stated they walked that back after discussions with the coaches, student groups, and administrators. They seemed to have a better understanding of the 1st Amendment, and how it applies to this situation. If you look at the message that they created together, with the coaches i believe, it doesn't demand the kid to be expelled. It does say that they want the university to make a stronger policy to protect them from discrimination and harassment though. So I disagree that this puts the university in a bad spot to where they either need to bend to the players or face a law suit. I don't think KSU is going to violate anyone's rights. I do think they are doing the right thing by working with the students to put a better, stronger policy in place to protect it's students.
People don’t like protests when they don’t agree with what people are protesting about.

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stlcatfan
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Post by stlcatfan » June 29th, 2020, 6:21 pm

kstatefan1863 wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 6:03 pm
stlcatfan wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 5:38 pm


With all due respect, your post is classic demagoguery. In truth, what a lot of people are upset about is how the athletes responded to the kid's insensitive joke about George Floyd. It could have and should have been handled much better. By saying publicly they will not play for K-State until a list of demands are met (including expelling McNeil) was not well thought out and ended up making themselves look bad in the process (not to mention, putting the entire university in a bad light).

The administration likely can't kick this kid out of school without risking a lawsuit because his First Amendment rights would be violated. So now what are the athletes going to do? They will either have to find a face-saving way of giving up their demands or transfer to another school. The best thing they could have done is ignore the dumb tweet.
Yes, the kids seemed to have been to quick to respond, I agree. That is probably why their first demands seemed so drastic. These are very young adults, and they were emotional. I hope they learn from this though, and it seems as though they already have. Your post seems to mention that you think they are still demanding that the kid is expelled. Have I posted an article yesterday from the Manhattan Mercury that sounded like it stated they walked that back after discussions with the coaches, student groups, and administrators. They seemed to have a better understanding of the 1st Amendment, and how it applies to this situation. If you look at the message that they created together, with the coaches i believe, it doesn't demand the kid to be expelled. It does say that they want the university to make a stronger policy to protect them from discrimination and harassment though. So I disagree that this puts the university in a bad spot to where they either need to bend to the players or face a law suit. I don't think KSU is going to violate anyone's rights. I do think they are doing the right thing by working with the students to put a better, stronger policy in place to protect it's students.
I went to the website and found the article. It sounds like they still want some sort of action taken against McNeil, but I am glad they are backing off their threat to not play until he is kicked out.

I guess one silver lining in all of this is learning how to properly respond to offensive tweets if you are a public figure. And as you mentioned, they got a lesson on the First Amendment.

wild@nite
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Post by wild@nite » June 29th, 2020, 7:13 pm

kstatefan1863 wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 5:17 pm
wild@nite, I know a lot of people that would agree with you about the social media being the main issue. Sometimes I even find myself getting irritated with it. At the same time though, that is how these kids were able to accomplish getting the coaches and administration to work on this with them so quickly. I love that they are doing it now, but sadly, I fear that if they had gone the private route, it wouldn't have had the same urgency. Did you hear about what Christiana Carr was sent via social media? If not, please look it up so you can understand how some people responded to her.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the sprinter. Nobody should feel like they're being discriminated against. I would like to share though that just because someone that had more privileges than you did growing up, doesn't mean they didn't have to deal with racism and have hurdles (no pun intended) that white kids didn't. I grew up in KCMO, but I had friends in very well off areas of Johnson County as well, and some of them were black. They had nicer clothes and cars than I did, and they were super smart and got good grades, but they were still treated differently than many of the white kids they grew up with. This might be why some people carry a chip on their shoulder, and perhaps are weary of trusting white people. It's sometimes difficult to see someone that comes from money and think of them as being mistreated, but it does happen. I'm not saying that was the case with your friend, but I wanted to point that out, because it's something I noticed when I was growing up.

As you mentioned, it's out there on social media now, and there isn't anything we can do about it. Whether it was right or wrong for them to go about it that way will probably always be a topic of discussion, but perhaps the change that is taking place will make it to where we can avoid groups of our students feeling like they need to take these measures. I certainly hope so.
I agree. I will tell you though, that it works both ways. If a black has a chip on their shoulder, im supposed to take if off even tough I've never net them? Were supposed to trust that behavior?
They are given a free pass to hold a grudge vs all whites? I worked in Raytown, MO for awhile and I felt the hate from some blacks whom I've never met. It didn't hurt my feelings, I honestly get it, what I don't get is them lumping all white people and that being dismissed. Is that not racism?

This is an issue that's going unsaid. We can try to eliminate public racism, but its still going to be there because of what I'm speaking of.

Its been around forever and it isn't just whites. Historically, a lot of whites have been downright hateful and tried to keep blacks down, but also, historically, a lot of whites don't and haven't done that and I don't appreciate being lumped into that, nor do I appreciate being pressured to join a movement that is filled with black racism.

Its a two way street. Only one side is acknowledging it and if a black person does, like the YouTube video, he is immediately discounted.

I know I'm not in the minority on this, but the angry mobs are trying to keep this fact quiet.

I truly want equality for all, but progress will be fake progress until the angry mob crap stops. Ive said it before, they may have felt this was the only way to get the influential people to listen. Ok.... You have their ear, now come with a constructive, peaceful way to progress. That excuse is now gone and going forward, the mob mentality will be counterproductive to their mission. People will, and are getting fed up with the bully tactics and getting lumped in as racist because we're either white, or because we refuse to support the "burn it down, racist mentality of Hawk Newsome. My fear is that these black athletes will develop his mentality.

Would that be OK with you?

kstatefan1863
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Post by kstatefan1863 » June 29th, 2020, 8:43 pm

wild@nite, you shouldn't feel obligated to take the chip off anyones shoulder. Thats something they are going to have to decide to do for themselves. I do think it's helpful to try to see things through the other persons eyes, or try to empathize and understand why people are the way they are though. I know what you're talking about in Raytown as well. They are very weary of white people in east KC, and surrounding area. I used to ride the Troost Max Line, and I was usually the only white person on there. Sometimes I'd know someone, but often times people wouldn't talk to me or even look at me. I didn't hold it against them though. I knew it wasn't anything personal about me. I had a lot of perspective though, which I know not all people have had in their own experiences. I'm not saying that people should just treat people that are different than themselves better or that the other people should be allowed to discriminate against you. That should never happen to anyone.

Instead of referring to them as an angry mob, I prefer to see them as people that are fed up with the system are organizing to be heard. Society has failed them. Have all of them gone about it the right way, no. The vast majority of protests are peaceful though. As for the team, I don't consider it to be an angry mob when they're just meeting with coaches and student groups to discuss something that is bringing down people in their community, and coming up with a plan of action that everyone (of all races) decides to do in unity. I know you see it differently, and I can respect that. I think the only way forward is for everyone involved to try to understand the other side though. I think our team has so far handled this really well, although the first few tweets should have maybe been held off until their first team meeting. I have no reason to believe that they are going to adopt a burn it down mentality.

Tbonespop
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Post by Tbonespop » June 29th, 2020, 8:51 pm

kstatefan1863 wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 12:29 am
Tbonespop wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 12:14 am


Ok I’ll be nicer since you’re obviously pretty sensitive. First, I never said anything about rap music, YOU did. That’s where your mind went, not mine. There very well could be some country or rock music the kids listen to that’s inappropriate.
I never said rap music. And I'm not sensitive, I just think you're very immature. I'm offended that fellow Wildcats resort to that kind of behavior when someone expresses views that differ from theirs. It's just sad, really.
This is my last post on this matter with you. The main point I am making is simple, the players are taking issue with something some nitwit posted on his twitter feed. Yet, many of them listen to music on a daily basis (in many forms - rock, hip hop, rap, and country) that has inappropriate messages - some is racism, some is sexism, etc. These players are white, black, and other races. The people who sing these songs are white, black, and other races. It has nothing to do with race with respect to the players. The point is, they hear offensive crap all the time on their playlists and aren't offended by that. Yet, one knucklehead makes a dumb post on twitter and they are so offended by it, they boycotting playing football. Well, fine. There's the damn door. Want to solve the issue, work through a solution with your leaders. But don't threaten a boycott. A good starting point might be to take a long hard look in the mirror first. Again, I'm not saying anything in defense of the person who wrote the tweet. I'm saying that I'd bet good money these players are exposed to other forms of the same bad crap, and they aren't admitting it. And as a side note, I've coached football before (you're obviously new around here) and I've heard some of the music the kids listen to. I have teenage kids right now (3 of them) and know whats on their playlists and know what's popular. If the players are that easily offended by the one student on twitter so much that they are willing to boycott playing, then lets see whats on their music lists too, That's the point.

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Post by katlander » June 29th, 2020, 10:17 pm

I just don't see or am not aware of the racism of today. I keep hearing about all of the racism and how society has failed blacks but I don't see it. What I see is that blacks don't get out of the ghetto and otherwise avail themselves of the opportunities they have been given. What am I missing?

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Post by bhoovy » June 29th, 2020, 10:40 pm

katlander wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 10:17 pm
I just don't see or am not aware of the racism of today. I keep hearing about all of the racism and how society has failed blacks but I don't see it. What I see is that blacks don't get out of the ghetto and otherwise avail themselves of the opportunities they have been given. What am I missing?
You’re missing nothing katlander. See the video powercat5000 posted or listen to or read articles of these black individuals, Bob Woodson, Shelby Steele, Deroy Murdock or Larry Elder to name a few. Or Leo Terrell, who’s black, a Democrat and a civil rights lawyer who also said he’d vote Trump if Biden picks Camellia Harris as his VP candidate.

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WIldWIllieCat
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Post by WIldWIllieCat » June 30th, 2020, 8:09 am

katlander wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 10:17 pm
I just don't see or am not aware of the racism of today. I keep hearing about all of the racism and how society has failed blacks but I don't see it. What I see is that blacks don't get out of the ghetto and otherwise avail themselves of the opportunities they have been given. What am I missing?
Perspective.
"The peculiar office of a demagogue is to advance his own interests, by affecting a deep devotion to the interests of the people. .”

wild@nite
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Post by wild@nite » June 30th, 2020, 9:59 am

WIldWIllieCat wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 8:09 am
katlander wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 10:17 pm
I just don't see or am not aware of the racism of today. I keep hearing about all of the racism and how society has failed blacks but I don't see it. What I see is that blacks don't get out of the ghetto and otherwise avail themselves of the opportunities they have been given. What am I missing?
Perspective.
Community colleges, tech schools, universities, federal aid (the big one), African American specific scholarships, career specific scholarships, or do like i did and work your way through college. Plenty of opportunity to get out of the ghetto. Dont blame an entire ethnic group when you choose to not seek free money, aid, or work to get training. That's the perspective of many, and not all with this perspective are white.

The victim card is easy. Its flat out easier to keep blaming the white man for what "some" did to them years ago. The opportunities are there now, but it seems that its easier to keep blaming the entire white race than seek a better situation for themselves.

Perspective.
Last edited by wild@nite on June 30th, 2020, 10:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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