What happens downriver now

[Highway26north]

Beilein also coached in, and lost, the title game.

[tmcats]

winning national titles is damn hard. winning three of them while not cheating is pretty amazing.

[pulitzerdave]

Self is a good coach. Not as good as his cheating record indicates, but even when you compare him to other coaches who get similar talent, Self does well. He is one of the best at working refs and he and his staff have developed a lot players who weren't considered elite talent coming out of HS, into elite college players. But again, you can't overlook his decades of cheating and give him respect for his coaching abilities, unless you're a KU fan or blueblood homer.

I’m certainly no Self apologist, but he is a very very good coach. He’s been successful everywhere he’s been. He took a very poor Oral Roberts team and turned them into a 21 win squad. In his 3 years at Tulsa he was 74-27, won the conference twice and made the NCAA twice going to the second round and the elite 8. At Illinois he was 78-24 in his 3 years. Won the conference twice and second once. All 3 years in the NCAA played at least into the second round, with a sweet 16 and elite 8.

He is a very very good coach, but I think the success and desire to be among college basketball elites of all time got to be his desire and it ended up being at any cost. He would have been incredibly successful without cheating. Unfortunately that wasn’t good enough for him.

And it certainly wasn't good enough for KU basketball after Larry Brown and Roy Williams had established a "blue blood" culture. Tremendous pressure on Self to live up to those two, and cheating was the only path to that.

[learnin]

Self is a good coach. Not as good as his cheating record indicates, but even when you compare him to other coaches who get similar talent, Self does well. He is one of the best at working refs and he and his staff have developed a lot players who weren't considered elite talent coming out of HS, into elite college players. But again, you can't overlook his decades of cheating and give him respect for his coaching abilities, unless you're a KU fan or blueblood homer.

I’m certainly no Self apologist, but he is a very very good coach. He’s been successful everywhere he’s been. He took a very poor Oral Roberts team and turned them into a 21 win squad. In his 3 years at Tulsa he was 74-27, won the conference twice and made the NCAA twice going to the second round and the elite 8. At Illinois he was 78-24 in his 3 years. Won the conference twice and second once. All 3 years in the NCAA played at least into the second round, with a sweet 16 and elite 8.

He is a very very good coach, but I think the success and desire to be among college basketball elites of all time got to be his desire and it ended up being at any cost. He would have been incredibly successful without cheating. Unfortunately that wasn’t good enough for him.

Bill Self has one national championship and, one three pointer, or a few made free throws would have kept him from having that one championship. Now, one championship when he was cheating every year, while at Kansas, and was assured of a one or two seed every year because of cheating.
I think you're right. He knew the game and how the big programs were getting the best in the land. He even made that statement: "That's how they do it at Duke....." So, in order to keep up with the elite, he took the easy way. Here's the sad thing. I would venture that, if he had done it the right way and got good solid 4 year players, I bet he might have more than one championship.

[tmcats]

bill self has done less with more than any coach i can ever recall. signed, the killer b's

[tmcats]

stuff just keep falling against ku in their fight with the ncaa and former coach david beaty.

THURSDAY, MAY 28, 2020

Depositions in Beaty lawsuit can be part of KU infractions case, NCAA committee chair says; decision could affect basketball case too

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2020/may/ ... infractio/

[KsJoey]

The mishandling of this situation by AD Long is a bit mind-blowing. The choice to try to withhold the 3M owed to Beaty, for the same thing that Miles has already done, is beyond stupid. I don't see how KU comes out ahead here, even if they do eventually win the suit.

[tmcats]

beaty's argument seems to be that he was fired 'without cause,' then wasn't given his separation bonus do to 'for cause' reasons found after the fact, but since coach miles did essentially the same 'for cause' things without being canned, beaty is due his bonus. the argument is weak to my way of thinking as a potential jurist but the courts act oddly at times and this may be one of them. ku financials are not strong and $3 million isn't chump change.

[PurpleOnWhite]

beaty's argument seems to be that he was fired 'without cause,' then wasn't given his separation bonus do to 'for cause' reasons found after the fact, but since coach miles did essentially the same 'for cause' things without being canned, beaty is due his bonus. the argument is weak to my way of thinking as a potential jurist but the courts act oddly at times and this may be one of them. ku financials are not strong and $3 million isn't chump change.

Just wait until they have to pay Self his full contract, cheating or no. Beatty will be chump change.

[ksume2000]

beaty's argument seems to be that he was fired 'without cause,' then wasn't given his separation bonus do to 'for cause' reasons found after the fact, but since coach miles did essentially the same 'for cause' things without being canned, beaty is due his bonus. the argument is weak to my way of thinking as a potential jurist but the courts act oddly at times and this may be one of them. ku financials are not strong and $3 million isn't chump change.

I think it's a pretty strong argument, actually.

1. Is the misbehavior in question a cause to fire an employee? If "no" for one coach, it can't be "yes" for another coach. If the violations are not cause to fire Miles, then it is a huge stretch to claim that they would have been a cause to fire Beatty (even if they were known at the time of firing). Which leads us to:

2. Beatty was NOT fired for cause. He was fired for losing. Misbehavior was discovered later that may or may not have constituted cause, had it been known at the time. In light of point 1 above, it probably wouldn't have been considered cause even if it had been known.

KU is on really weak logical terrain here.