Way too early Big 12 power rankings

[gdgjr78]

I haven't read all the posts here. Don't have the time nowadays. But I read the original article posted... which was pretty generic. Lots of errors and anybody could make that assumption with the amount of new guys and guys not returning. Poorly written, but still the idea that we're picked last isn't a surprise. It makes sense in a lot of ways. When you have so many unproven/unexperienced players which are expected to provide majority of the minutes, you have a lot of question marks. Even if this team hits well with a new player or 2 (similar to Foster), this team will still probably not be an NCAA caliber team. Weber built teams need experienced players, simple as that. He needs talented 4 year guys that can then play the equivalent of a 4-5 * freshman. With such a slim upper class right now, success isn't going to happen this year. It "might" not happen next year. But it "might' happen in year 3 if things pan out. When this incoming class are Juniors, watch out. But that's only if they mostly stay together and if Bruce can develop a legit bigman...something that's a rarity for him outside of Wade.

You can turn a lot of Good (but not great) talent into great talent, if they can become a senior. Bruce's model needs to be recruiting top 150 caliber talent with a burning desire to be better, and coach it up so that in year 3-4, it is a force. Having upperclassmen that understand and can mature in his somewhat complicated offensive scheme is extremely valuable

I mostly agree with joeys breakdown except for 3 years from now. If KSU hasn't made the NCAA tourney in 2 years I'll be calling for webers replacement. Its his and the staffs fault for this total rebuild (again).

[epicsnyder]

I don't blame them. If they are good enough to jump up, do it. If you aren't getting minutes, by all means go get some. The intent of my post was not to blame the players. They are just using the system to their advantage and more power to them. The issue, IMO, is that the schools and the NCAA are being exposed even more as the sham they are when it comes to providing an education to "student"-athletes that have no intention of being a student.

[Puffdad]

One potential flaw in the "every three years we will be good" theory is the ground has shifted with transfers. So that will make it tougher.

The contributing players will stay unless a program has some seriously bad issues. The ones who aren’t playing much will seek greener pastures.

[Hypeman]

One potential flaw in the "every three years we will be good" theory is the ground has shifted with transfers. So that will make it tougher.

The contributing players will stay unless a program has some seriously bad issues. The ones who aren’t playing much will seek greener pastures.

Seems reasonable that they should have the right to do that for playing time or many other good reasons.

[wild@nite]

One potential flaw in the "every three years we will be good" theory is the ground has shifted with transfers. So that will make it tougher.

Another flaw is the mindset that we have to accept down years every 3rd year. I love that Weber is clean, but because of that, several on here, I feel, think like that. Look, this is my theory. If the NCAA is that corrupt that we are ok with having 2-3 bad years for every 2 good years, then why the hell isn't Weber or GT leading the charge in trying to get a fix? Speak up. I've been saying this for several years. If they aren't willing to do this, then they are part of the problem. If they are worried about being labeled over trying to clean up the game, then that's pretty selfish.

It's time for the clean coaches, and A.D's like Bruce to have a voice. Grow some balls and sell out the cheaters.

If they aren't willing to try and help clean it up, then why should I feel bad about bitching about an 11 win season in year 8?

Bruce is labeled a "stand up" guy and I try believe he is, but I really wish he would "stand up" and form an alliance against the cheating SOB's in the game.

Remember when Knight publicly called out Eddie Sutton? It was awesome, but it needs done more. For the life of me, I don't know why people with influence just sit back and take it. Actually, I do know. It's putting the paycheck ahead of the integrity of the profession.

Obviously, it's not Bruce's fault, but I'm sick of the attitude justifying an 11 win season because he's clean and that's what we have to settle for. Where are the A.D's and coaches who could speak out? It's damn near as pathetic as career politicians just doing the "partisan" thing even though they may not personally believe in it.

As a fan, it's a sickening thing, the NCAA.

[tmcats]

your points are well taken here. but this happens in all walks of life, sadly. look at politics today. people will not stand up for what is right but rather default to party talking points.

and i've heard weber do that time after time when he said things like: well, i was surprised. what the hell, bruce, no you weren't. you live in the cesspool.

[wild@nite]

your points are well taken here. but this happens in all walks of life, sadly. look at politics today. people will not stand up for what is right but rather default to party talking points.

and i've heard weber do that time after time when he said things like: well, i was surprised. what the hell, bruce, no you weren't. you live in the cesspool.

Yep. Funny, I just added the "politics" part to my post right before I read yours. That says it all. If Bruce and the "clean" coaches are willing to stay quiet and play the game, then people, don't gripe when we are sick of seeing seasons like this past season.

[Quietstorm5]

your points are well taken here. but this happens in all walks of life, sadly. look at politics today. people will not stand up for what is right but rather default to party talking points.

and i've heard weber do that time after time when he said things like: well, i was surprised. what the hell, bruce, no you weren't. you live in the cesspool.

I understand where you are coming from with this because I used to feel the same way but unfortunately it isn't that simple. It would be great if just standing up to the crooks and shysters would bring it to and end but it doesn't and won't. Weber's time at Illinois has shown that.

There was an article in the Sun-Times about Anthony Davis father openly soliciting $150,000 for his son to play for a school and surprise surprise he ends up at one of the more well known dirty programs. His family didn't like the article and said it wasn't true. They threatened legal action but the newspaper stood by it and called their bluff because they had proof from sources one of them being a coach who wouldn't even entertain it that type of recruiting. Well the family dropped it because, most likely they knew it would open them up to it being proven true. Nothing happened to Davis, his family or Kentucky. However, many assumed the coach to be Weber and he got nothing but backlash and negative recruiting against him for it and that's without anyone really knowing if it was him!

[wild@nite]

Nobody said it would be easy. Rarely is anything worthwhile, easy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting naming recruits, but be outspoken about the rampid cheating amongst certain schools. The A.D's and presidents too. Bruce has been around long enough that recruits and parents know he's not on the take, so negative recruiting? Big deal. Bruce woukd also get some kids if he took a stance. I know one thing, if my job performance was being effected by dishonest people around me, I'd take offense to it. I guess the ludicrous paycheck speaks volumes and why nobody is willing to fight it. Sad.

[Quietstorm5]

Nobody said it would be easy. Rarely is anything worthwhile, easy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting naming recruits, but be outspoken about the rampid cheating amongst certain schools. The A.D's and presidents too. Bruce has been around long enough that recruits and parents know he's not on the take, so negative recruiting? Big deal. Bruce woukd also get some kids if he took a stance. I know one thing, if my job performance was being effected by dishonest people around me, I'd take offense to it. I guess the ludicrous paycheck speaks volumes and why nobody is willing to fight it. Sad.

There is more to negative recruiting than being called dirty. There have been a couple of very horrible things implied about him for just being assumed to be a coach that was the source for pointing out the dirtiness of one recruits family and the school he went to. Nothing good or useful came from it. So why would anyone risk it? As you stated people all know his is clean and he has been voted one of the 10 cleanest coaches by other coaches in a couple of anonymous polls. He has that reputation while also essentially averaging a conference championship every 4 years over the course of a 20 year career. There just isn't any upside to being the "loser coach just complaining because he can't recruit well". It would be great if there was and if the NCAA would put more effort into cleaning it up but history has shown the risk/reward isn't there especially if you are doing pretty decent anyway.