This year is inexcusable

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
User avatar
gdgjr78
Posts: 5274
Joined: September 12th, 2013, 6:50 pm
Location: Ta Town
Has liked: 36 times
Been liked: 68 times

Re: This year is inexcusable

Post by gdgjr78 » February 13th, 2020, 10:18 pm

ToledoCat#2 wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 9:43 pm
Mostly agree with your viewpoint, WWC.

I'll take clean over winning at all costs any day of the week.
I appreciate the clean program as well and if KSU had just won in the 1st rd of the years with the shared conf championships I would feel very different. I'm not calling for Weber to be fired I'm just tired of the rollercoaster AND the faceplants in the ncaa tourney. I just want some consistency, PLEASE!!!
"Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

User avatar
WIldWIllieCat
Posts: 17063
Joined: September 7th, 2013, 7:30 am
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 242 times

Post by WIldWIllieCat » February 13th, 2020, 11:36 pm

I hear ya man....I hear ya. Apparently it is a luxury to not have to watch the team crater every three or four years.
"Cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.”~George Washington

hilltopwildcat
Posts: 4014
Joined: September 4th, 2013, 12:52 am
Has liked: 615 times
Been liked: 236 times

Post by hilltopwildcat » February 14th, 2020, 12:00 am

AJcat7755 wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 4:43 pm
learnin wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 3:31 pm
2. I think your thinking that Dean Wade could have been so much more had he gone to a blueblood program is nothing more than a wild guess.
First of all, how many blue blood programs offered? It is reported that Self, after he committed to K-State, was steamed his coaches never got
on Dean's bandwagon. Secondly, if he had gone to a blueblood, he might have found himself riding the bench, especially if he had been reluctant
to shoot much as he was when he came here. Keep in mind, blue bloods have a plethora of talent sitting on the bench and they're eager to put up
shots. We have no way of knowing what might have taken place if...……..
Wade isn't flashy, wasn't a 5*, and is from KS. Blue blood fans would have eat him up and spit him out as they root to get the next one and done MCDAA in there to replace him.

Which school that did offer Wade would he have developed into a higher draft pick?

Boise State, Creighton, Evansville, Iowa, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon State, South Dakota, TCU, UTEP, Vandy, Washington State, Wichita State

Maybe Oklahoma, due to some recent history of Griffins and Osby, but they aren't a blue blood. Wichita State could have gone farther in the tournament with Wade during their run, so maybe his stock rises there as a result of the visibility. Big white guy at Iowa, seems to fit their demographics, but they aren't known for 1st round picks.

As for KU, they signed Diallo (5*), Bragg (5*) and Vick (4*) in their 2015 class. Now looking back, they missed on some of those, but at the time, who was KU going to not sign to get a 3* in Wade? Keep in mind, Cliff Alexander (5*) was already on the team the year prior at the PF position. Wade going to KU probably means they don't go after Lightfoot in 2016, but in 2017, Wade would be over recruited with Preston and De Sousa. We know what happened with them, but it just shows how quickly players can get over recruited.
I'd hypothesize that if Dean wouldn't have signed early with K-State and the beaks and other P5's had came after him, he'd have shot to a high 4 or 5* player.
These users liked hilltopwildcat for the post:
Puffdad (February 14th, 2020, 12:18 am)

hilltopwildcat
Posts: 4014
Joined: September 4th, 2013, 12:52 am
Has liked: 615 times
Been liked: 236 times

Post by hilltopwildcat » February 14th, 2020, 12:08 am

learnin wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 11:05 am
They tried to clean the game up about 3-4 years ago. They were going to make it less physical, but that was short lived. Now, the game is even more physical than it was before as every team tries to get an advantage by being physical. The game is ugly and it's not just Kansas State that is ugly.
Consider KU. Where are the old KU offensive juggernauts? Do you remember when KU would easily put up 90 points per game? Their offense, generally, looked like a well oiled machine. Last night, at West Virginia, KU had 21 points with under one minute to go in the first half. They looked ugly, but Self has stepped up their defense. The sad fact of the matter is that you step up defense by becoming more physical.

Yes, they tried to clean the game up, but the fans didn't like the whistles. "Let em' play". That was the battle cry across the nation. And this is what we are faced with. I'm about to give up on the game I love. It's just too ugly any more and the refs are reduced to baby sitters where they let six fouls go by and then call the 7th just so it doesn't become a tag team match. Every rebound that is pulled down is challenged by six hands flailing at the rebounder. Dok, for KU, is the best big man in the nation and he looked like a bumbling idiot last night at Morgantown.

And for all the K-State fans, here and Twitter, who love to praise other programs, and other coaches, while they love to bash the ugly ball of K-State and their coach, consider that Bob Huggins has done more to ugly the game up than any coach across the nation. Why? Because he has to compete with the blue bloods who have bought players for years and have had a distinct advantage over all other programs. This is what monopoly does to all sphere's of life.

I think the only answer is to go to the 24 second shot clock like the NBA. At least, the physicality can only go on for about 20 seconds per possession and the game will be more fluid.
I'll disagree on a few minor points. Self's teams scored so much off the pressure defense and got out and ran. He hasn't had a whole stable full lately. I don't think he has 4 3-ball shooters and a couple of NBS 1st rounders in the post either (but I haven't watched enough to know). When you lose your offensive talent, you play defense and ugly it up.

Night after night in high school ball, I see kids with wide open 5-12' shots pass them up to go slam into a defender and beg for a foul. I see multiple times when they have a clear lane to the basket, slow down and jump into a stationary defender and beg for a foul. It apparently doesn't change much when they move up to college.

I think the shorter shot clock has caused a lot of this. A team will come down, run their set 1 time and if what they're looking for isn't there, they drive and dish (and crash). You'd think the 30 second shot clock was an 8 second clock. They play WAY too fast and out of control.
These users liked hilltopwildcat for the post:
Puffdad (February 14th, 2020, 12:19 am)

KITNooga
Posts: 5445
Joined: September 19th, 2017, 8:22 am
Has liked: 299 times
Been liked: 261 times

Post by KITNooga » February 14th, 2020, 8:50 am

learnin wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 2:45 pm
KITNooga wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 11:22 am


I think the shot clock got us more to this point than anything. a shorter clock won't help.

if you think the mugging going on in college is 'something' have you been watching the pros?

consider this: without a shot clock, a team could milk several fouls on a posession. unless the defense plays smarter. not necessarily harder.

smarter. and those teams that could maintain composure, focus, discipline? they'll consistently do well.

Let's go back to no shot clock so we can have two or three minutes of wrestling.
learnin: youre never going to get that 'beautiful flow' that you seem to pine for. that's a myth.

doesn't matter how the game gets set up, bigger, faster athletes will try to force their will on the competition. heck, look at Ed Nealy - a converted outside shooter who set records on low post for rebounds.

look at shaquille o'neal: massive body. he fouled (not 'was fouled') everytime he went to the basket. people said 'he couldn't be stopped'? that's BS.

Post Reply