This year is inexcusable

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
Tbonespop
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Re: This year is inexcusable

Post by Tbonespop » February 13th, 2020, 10:48 am

bigpurpleman wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 9:39 am
KsJoey wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 9:01 am
Our defense is the only thing that has kept us in games. It's been respectable a lot of the time. It also shows the Cats are putting in good effort.. but that doesn't translate to good or even average offense. In past years, I would place a lot of the blame at Webers feet for having an offense that doesn't fit the players he has. But I don't think that's the issue this year. Besides the turnover prone and offense stalling Diarra, these guys just aren't natural scorers.

Only plus side is that next year we have incoming guards that are natural scorers. It still may not show up in win column next year, but as long as 2021 is a solid recruiting class, it'll start showing up after that. Too many recruiting whifs are the reason this team is so bad right now.
Our defense was atrocious against a bad team.
Agreed 100%. Apparently Joey's idea quality defense and ours aren't in alignment.

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Post by Tbonespop » February 13th, 2020, 10:53 am

DeereCatFan wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 6:18 am
AJcat7755 wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 4:43 pm


Wade isn't flashy, wasn't a 5*, and is from KS. Blue blood fans would have eat him up and spit him out as they root to get the next one and done MCDAA in there to replace him.

Which school that did offer Wade would he have developed into a higher draft pick?

Boise State, Creighton, Evansville, Iowa, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon State, South Dakota, TCU, UTEP, Vandy, Washington State, Wichita State

Maybe Oklahoma, due to some recent history of Griffins and Osby, but they aren't a blue blood. Wichita State could have gone farther in the tournament with Wade during their run, so maybe his stock rises there as a result of the visibility. Big white guy at Iowa, seems to fit their demographics, but they aren't known for 1st round picks.

As for KU, they signed Diallo (5*), Bragg (5*) and Vick (4*) in their 2015 class. Now looking back, they missed on some of those, but at the time, who was KU going to not sign to get a 3* in Wade? Keep in mind, Cliff Alexander (5*) was already on the team the year prior at the PF position. Wade going to KU probably means they don't go after Lightfoot in 2016, but in 2017, Wade would be over recruited with Preston and De Sousa. We know what happened with them, but it just shows how quickly players can get over recruited.
Just stating my opinion but I personally think player development under Weber is lacking. That is the point I was trying to make. I see some regression in players and read comments on here about it and agree. And yes my GUT feeling is he would have been a much better player with the coaches at KU. I have no proof of that though correct. I am certainly glad he didnt go there as I despise the beaks as much as the next guy. I think Dean picked up some of Webers tentativeness and sometimes couldn't get him to shoot. Lack of confidence whatever. His talents just seemed a bit wasted. I'm not a basketball guru but enjoy to watch it and certainly cheer for the Cats when I'm able to watch.

I'm not saying fire Weber at all, because not sure who they would get. Just saying I am a little indifferent on whether he stays or goes. He'll probably make me eat my words in a year or 2. He has before.
Dean Wade was one of the most fundamentally sound, well coached high profile HS kids I have ever seen in college basketball (almost a throwback '80's type player). Most kids of his skill level don't get the quality coaching and develop fundamentals because their talent level is so much better than the other players around them, they don't need to be as fundamentally sound to succeed in HS, so they don't get it then. Had it not been for his good foundation, I have serious doubts he would have gotten that development under Weber. JMHO.
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PurpleOnWhite (February 13th, 2020, 12:58 pm)

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Post by learnin » February 13th, 2020, 11:05 am

They tried to clean the game up about 3-4 years ago. They were going to make it less physical, but that was short lived. Now, the game is even more physical than it was before as every team tries to get an advantage by being physical. The game is ugly and it's not just Kansas State that is ugly.
Consider KU. Where are the old KU offensive juggernauts? Do you remember when KU would easily put up 90 points per game? Their offense, generally, looked like a well oiled machine. Last night, at West Virginia, KU had 21 points with under one minute to go in the first half. They looked ugly, but Self has stepped up their defense. The sad fact of the matter is that you step up defense by becoming more physical.

Yes, they tried to clean the game up, but the fans didn't like the whistles. "Let em' play". That was the battle cry across the nation. And this is what we are faced with. I'm about to give up on the game I love. It's just too ugly any more and the refs are reduced to baby sitters where they let six fouls go by and then call the 7th just so it doesn't become a tag team match. Every rebound that is pulled down is challenged by six hands flailing at the rebounder. Dok, for KU, is the best big man in the nation and he looked like a bumbling idiot last night at Morgantown.

And for all the K-State fans, here and Twitter, who love to praise other programs, and other coaches, while they love to bash the ugly ball of K-State and their coach, consider that Bob Huggins has done more to ugly the game up than any coach across the nation. Why? Because he has to compete with the blue bloods who have bought players for years and have had a distinct advantage over all other programs. This is what monopoly does to all sphere's of life.

I think the only answer is to go to the 24 second shot clock like the NBA. At least, the physicality can only go on for about 20 seconds per possession and the game will be more fluid.

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Post by KITNooga » February 13th, 2020, 11:22 am

learnin wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 11:05 am
I think the only answer is to go to the 24 second shot clock like the NBA. At least, the physicality can only go on for about 20 seconds per possession and the game will be more fluid.
I think the shot clock got us more to this point than anything. a shorter clock won't help.

if you think the mugging going on in college is 'something' have you been watching the pros?

consider this: without a shot clock, a team could milk several fouls on a posession. unless the defense plays smarter. not necessarily harder.

smarter. and those teams that could maintain composure, focus, discipline? they'll consistently do well.

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Pick 'Em

Post by AJcat7755 » February 13th, 2020, 1:34 pm

DeereCatFan wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 6:18 am
Just stating my opinion but I personally think player development under Weber is lacking. That is the point I was trying to make. I see some regression in players and read comments on here about it and agree. And yes my GUT feeling is he would have been a much better player with the coaches at KU. I have no proof of that though correct. I am certainly glad he didnt go there as I despise the beaks as much as the next guy. I think Dean picked up some of Webers tentativeness and sometimes couldn't get him to shoot. Lack of confidence whatever. His talents just seemed a bit wasted. I'm not a basketball guru but enjoy to watch it and certainly cheer for the Cats when I'm able to watch.

I'm not saying fire Weber at all, because not sure who they would get. Just saying I am a little indifferent on whether he stays or goes. He'll probably make me eat my words in a year or 2. He has before.
I do agree that if he were able to play at KU and not get over recruited, he would have developed into a higher draft pick. Both from KU's notoriety, and because the coaches would have been able to develop bigs better. I was just saying that he probably wouldn't have seen much of the floor at KU given the players around him, both before him, and after him. Mitch Lightfoot was a 4* and he doesn't see the floor much (although he is RS this year), so it will be interesting to see what his professional career looks like.

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Post by learnin » February 13th, 2020, 2:45 pm

KITNooga wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 11:22 am
learnin wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 11:05 am
I think the only answer is to go to the 24 second shot clock like the NBA. At least, the physicality can only go on for about 20 seconds per possession and the game will be more fluid.
I think the shot clock got us more to this point than anything. a shorter clock won't help.

if you think the mugging going on in college is 'something' have you been watching the pros?

consider this: without a shot clock, a team could milk several fouls on a posession. unless the defense plays smarter. not necessarily harder.

smarter. and those teams that could maintain composure, focus, discipline? they'll consistently do well.

Let's go back to no shot clock so we can have two or three minutes of wrestling.

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Post by Puffdad » February 13th, 2020, 3:02 pm

Nobody wants to guard that long. The shorter the shot clock the easier it is on the defense. Or the wrestling.
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learnin (February 13th, 2020, 6:01 pm)

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Post by Ksustephens » February 13th, 2020, 7:35 pm

Was talking to a coach the other day of a highly ranked kansas team with like 3 d1 players. Basically he didn’t even get contacted - it’s the summer AAU coach - and basically the shoe companies bagmen drop the bags of cash on the doorstep of the recruit - they all live in section 8 housing and carry fancy iPhones beats headphones, nice clothes, drive decent cars, etc. This particular kid is part of Mo Can spice who is ran by Nike and Kevin Durant and lo and behold all schools recruiting him are Nike schools. Such a cesspool

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Post by WIldWIllieCat » February 13th, 2020, 7:40 pm

I'll confess I didn't read the thread, so apologies up front.

This season is forgivable:

1. 2 Big XII titles
2. 1 Elite Eight
3. Runs a clean program fans can be proud of.
4. Bruce is one of the nicest most generous people you'll ever meet.

*SIGH*

With that said this season has been crushingly disappointing, and stirs up very disturbing ghosts that makes fans understandably anxious,
"Cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.”~George Washington

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Post by ToledoCat#2 » February 13th, 2020, 9:43 pm

Mostly agree with your viewpoint, WWC.

I'll take clean over winning at all costs any day of the week.

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