This year is inexcusable

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
Navycat
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Re: This year is inexcusable

Post by Navycat » February 12th, 2020, 2:50 pm

I wonder if Chester Frazier and Shane Southwell could see this coming and was part of the reason they left

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Post by DeereCatFan » February 12th, 2020, 2:54 pm

Disclaimer these are my opinions. I've seen folks get bashed on here for saying anything that was too critical of Weber. This seemed like the right thread.
I never liked the hire from day one and stated that many times before. Nice guy and runs a clean program. Just dont think he's that great of a coach. I think Dean Wade could have been so much more had he gone to a blueblood program. He probably develops nicely and gets a nice draft pick. Poor development and some of the same regression concerns I see now. Cripes I watched high school girls basketball game last night. Was much more entertaining btw. They dont miss free throws. How the hell can these guys suck that much at FT's. I fear the class coming in will be more of the same - unrealized talent that may go to waste. Weber will probably manage enough out of them in maybe year 3 to save his butt. Maybe they share a 3rd Big 12 title and flame out again in 1st round of the dance. This team just lost to the last place team in the league at home. How can they be favored in any remaining games.
I think this is the nature of the beast with Weber. A few high points marred by some bad years in between. I hope I am proved wrong.

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Post by gdgjr78 » February 12th, 2020, 2:56 pm

Its past time for this program to establish some consistency year to year. Weber needs to start finishing in the top half of the conference the VAST majority of the time. This rollercoaster has to stop.
"Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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Post by gdgjr78 » February 12th, 2020, 3:01 pm

KITNooga wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 8:00 am
bigpurpleman wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 7:30 am
Have we quit? Our defense isn’t even good now.
feels a lot, based on this thread, like a bunch of fans have quit.
This team is 9-15 (2-9) and just lost at home to the last place team in the conference, give me a break.
"Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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Post by Watutalkaboutwillis » February 12th, 2020, 3:03 pm

Navycat wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 2:50 pm
I wonder if Chester Frazier and Shane Southwell could see this coming and was part of the reason they left
Southwell was looking for a step up in coaching, He had to move. Chester is who we are missing to be honest. I think he held those guys accountable and had great repore with those guys. Lots of times during timeouts, Chester was the one talking to Brown and such. Thought Chester had the most potential to be a head coach. I have no idea if he stepped up or not, but I think we are missing him. Really think if Webber can't make some hard decisions in his coaching staff, Taylor needs to put pressure on him or start finding the next guy if he doesnt want to change. Kind of feels similar to the end of Snyder's tenure. We have a coaching hole. Weber can't do it all. Assistants are almost as valuable as the head coach in my opinion.

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Post by Watutalkaboutwillis » February 12th, 2020, 3:10 pm

Im not saying we should fire him at all. He has earned some time, but two more years any where close to these performances, and it is time. And it isnt luck that is causing this, its poor dumb play. Poor shot selection, poor passing, and poor post play, the list goes on. Hopefully in this next group of players we have smarter players that can shoot. Time will tell.

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Post by learnin » February 12th, 2020, 3:17 pm

bhoovy wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 2:17 pm
I’m with wild@nite. The bad luck mentality or can’t catch a break mentality is weak sauce. When you constantly start off bad that’s not bad luck and by falling that far behind how can you use the “can’t catch a break” excuse? Constantly making the same mistakes over and over is not bad luck. And this team really lacks much of any confidence in shooting the ball. Whether that’s the losing that’s effecting or something with the coaching who knows, but when it’s the object of the game and you’re not doing it, well you end up with a record like they have.

This season for the most part has been like a rerun of some really bad sitcom played over and over each game day.

I would agree with those that say this team lack leadership. I believed someone would eventually emerge, but after 24 games, 11 of those conference, and no one has yet, it’s pretty safe to assume no one will as there’s just no one with that personality or make up, at least that’s an upperclassman. I don’t think it’s fair to say that of any frosh, but now they better understand someone needs to emerge over this upcoming offseason and going into next year.

I think Sneed has actually tried to some, but feel that unfortunately it’s hurting his game as he just isn’t sure how to do it and as of late really seems to be forcing things more. He took 2-3 shots last night that were just completely out of character for him and I think he’s just so frustrated with the losing he’s trying to force the issue.

The coaches should know who’s truly capable of being a leader and would hope they’ve been really encouraging and even pushing that player to take on the challenge of that role.

But bad luck and bad breaks have little to nothing to do with where this team currently sits.
For the record, I'm not blaming this bad season on bad luck. We're not a good team. We do not have enough scorers to be a good team. I'm simply saying this team is not as bad as its record indicates. In the slew of close games this team has lost, a few breaks, here and there, would make a huge difference of how this team is viewed.

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Post by learnin » February 12th, 2020, 3:31 pm

DeereCatFan wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 2:54 pm
Disclaimer these are my opinions. I've seen folks get bashed on here for saying anything that was too critical of Weber. This seemed like the right thread.
I never liked the hire from day one and stated that many times before. Nice guy and runs a clean program. Just dont think he's that great of a coach. I think Dean Wade could have been so much more had he gone to a blueblood program. He probably develops nicely and gets a nice draft pick. Poor development and some of the same regression concerns I see now. Cripes I watched high school girls basketball game last night. Was much more entertaining btw. They dont miss free throws. How the hell can these guys suck that much at FT's. I fear the class coming in will be more of the same - unrealized talent that may go to waste. Weber will probably manage enough out of them in maybe year 3 to save his butt. Maybe they share a 3rd Big 12 title and flame out again in 1st round of the dance. This team just lost to the last place team in the league at home. How can they be favored in any remaining games.
I think this is the nature of the beast with Weber. A few high points marred by some bad years in between. I hope I am proved wrong.
1. Reasonable criticism of coaching, as far as I've read, does not get bashed just like reasonable criticism of players.

2. I think your thinking that Dean Wade could have been so much more had he gone to a blueblood program is nothing more than a wild guess.
First of all, how many blue blood programs offered? It is reported that Self, after he committed to K-State, was steamed his coaches never got
on Dean's bandwagon. Secondly, if he had gone to a blueblood, he might have found himself riding the bench, especially if he had been reluctant
to shoot much as he was when he came here. Keep in mind, blue bloods have a plethora of talent sitting on the bench and they're eager to put up
shots. We have no way of knowing what might have taken place if...……..

3. I would agree with you that girls high school games are more fun to watch. Girls high school basketball is played like basketball ought to be played. In other words, they play on a court and not in a ring.

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Post by AJcat7755 » February 12th, 2020, 4:43 pm

learnin wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 3:31 pm
2. I think your thinking that Dean Wade could have been so much more had he gone to a blueblood program is nothing more than a wild guess.
First of all, how many blue blood programs offered? It is reported that Self, after he committed to K-State, was steamed his coaches never got
on Dean's bandwagon. Secondly, if he had gone to a blueblood, he might have found himself riding the bench, especially if he had been reluctant
to shoot much as he was when he came here. Keep in mind, blue bloods have a plethora of talent sitting on the bench and they're eager to put up
shots. We have no way of knowing what might have taken place if...……..
Wade isn't flashy, wasn't a 5*, and is from KS. Blue blood fans would have eat him up and spit him out as they root to get the next one and done MCDAA in there to replace him.

Which school that did offer Wade would he have developed into a higher draft pick?

Boise State, Creighton, Evansville, Iowa, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon State, South Dakota, TCU, UTEP, Vandy, Washington State, Wichita State

Maybe Oklahoma, due to some recent history of Griffins and Osby, but they aren't a blue blood. Wichita State could have gone farther in the tournament with Wade during their run, so maybe his stock rises there as a result of the visibility. Big white guy at Iowa, seems to fit their demographics, but they aren't known for 1st round picks.

As for KU, they signed Diallo (5*), Bragg (5*) and Vick (4*) in their 2015 class. Now looking back, they missed on some of those, but at the time, who was KU going to not sign to get a 3* in Wade? Keep in mind, Cliff Alexander (5*) was already on the team the year prior at the PF position. Wade going to KU probably means they don't go after Lightfoot in 2016, but in 2017, Wade would be over recruited with Preston and De Sousa. We know what happened with them, but it just shows how quickly players can get over recruited.

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Post by Puffdad » February 12th, 2020, 5:47 pm

Sorry but he was a 4 star AJ. And I stood right there face to face and heard Self’s tirade about his assistants screw up. His assistants feared for their job. He was livid. And our conversation was immediately after he signed with us in the early signup period.
Learnin knows the true story.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/ ... -wade-7173

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