Fuel for thought

Politics and religion: two polarizing topics that deserve their own little place
KITNooga
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Re: Fuel for thought

Post by KITNooga » September 9th, 2019, 4:08 pm

Ksuminnesotacat wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 1:06 pm
Sure guys keep posting msn, guardian and other highly reliable sources as well but yeah I have an elk archery hunt to get ready for keep up the good work guys I’m sure you both will the keep the home fires cooking.
something not a lot of 'desktop debatin' lefties' want to recognize: it's not the source, it's the facts.

facts, those pesky, irrefutable dang things, can come from ANYWHERE.

but it's the height of laziness to just bemoan a source 'cause you don't like it.

watch all those folks that act like a 'winning discussion point' is to berate the source. (they never ever take a run at the data, or the foundation of such)

xtrawildcat
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Post by xtrawildcat » September 9th, 2019, 6:08 pm

These are the facts from the US energy information adminstration.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/el ... ration.pdf

Combined Cycle generation using natural gas is competitive with on shore wind at current natural gas prices. The government doesn't bother to look at future cost of electrical generation using coal as there are no future coal powered generation plants planned.

Ksuminnesotacat
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Post by Ksuminnesotacat » September 9th, 2019, 7:13 pm

xtrawildcat wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 6:08 pm
These are the facts from the US energy information adminstration.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/el ... ration.pdf

Combined Cycle generation using natural gas is competitive with on shore wind at current natural gas prices. The government doesn't bother to look at future cost of electrical generation using coal as there are no future coal powered generation plants planned.
I’m from the government and I am here to help! I tend to listen to actual acquaintances that actually own land that has turbines on it and there are subsidies but alas keep up the good fight xtra! Next time you are on I-70 and near the Ellsworth exit look to your right heading west. Coyote paradise brother! But seriously they aren’t bad just not the end all to be all and I’m sure you said that. Next stop big sky for this cat!

DMC
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Post by DMC » September 10th, 2019, 7:42 pm

xtrawildcat wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 6:08 pm
These are the facts from the US energy information adminstration.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/el ... ration.pdf

Combined Cycle generation using natural gas is competitive with on shore wind at current natural gas prices. The government doesn't bother to look at future cost of electrical generation using coal as there are no future coal powered generation plants planned.
This explains why that is crap.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/27/ ... expensive/

DMC
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Post by DMC » September 10th, 2019, 7:50 pm

A 2016 Utah State University study shows the following extra costs omitted or miscalculated by the EIA for wind power: 15-years not 30-year life expectancies (US 7¢ per kWh), backup power (at least 2.3¢ cents if the back-up is natural gas), transmission costs (2.7¢), government subsidies (23¢). All that means the real cost of wind power is a staggering 43¢ per kilowatt hour! That’s seven times the cost of natural gas-generated electricity! What family, factory, hospital, office, church or school can afford this?

ChemicalKat
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Post by ChemicalKat » September 10th, 2019, 7:51 pm

DMC wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 7:42 pm
xtrawildcat wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 6:08 pm
These are the facts from the US energy information adminstration.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/el ... ration.pdf

Combined Cycle generation using natural gas is competitive with on shore wind at current natural gas prices. The government doesn't bother to look at future cost of electrical generation using coal as there are no future coal powered generation plants planned.
This explains why that is crap.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/27/ ... expensive/
This is why I get angry.

KITNooga
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Post by KITNooga » September 10th, 2019, 8:25 pm

xtrawildcat wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 6:08 pm
These are the facts from the US energy information adminstration.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/el ... ration.pdf

Combined Cycle generation using natural gas is competitive with on shore wind at current natural gas prices. The government doesn't bother to look at future cost of electrical generation using coal as there are no future coal powered generation plants planned.
when you all ban fracking and natural gas prices escalate, then what? it's still a viable fuel source. just might have a point in the future where it's cost effective.

perhaps another question to ask: why is China continuing to build and use coal fired plants?

xtrawildcat
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Post by xtrawildcat » September 10th, 2019, 9:03 pm

DMC wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 7:42 pm
xtrawildcat wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 6:08 pm
These are the facts from the US energy information adminstration.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/el ... ration.pdf

Combined Cycle generation using natural gas is competitive with on shore wind at current natural gas prices. The government doesn't bother to look at future cost of electrical generation using coal as there are no future coal powered generation plants planned.
This explains why that is crap.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/27/ ... expensive/
Meanwhile 36% of electricity in Kansas comes from wind. And now projects are underway for Kansas to export wind power to Missouri and Indiana using the Grain Belt Express.

Like it or not, wind energy is a fact of life in Kansas and is providing production jobs at the Siemens plant in Hutchinson, construction jobs for new projects, maintenance jobs for existing projects and lease income to farmers in Kansas. And I have not met many farmers who do not like the lease income from a wind tower that makes their life a little easier.

But keep on telling me how bad it is.

And fyi. I have money invested in Westar (recently merged to become Evergy) partly due to the fact I see income potential in their investment in wind energy. And I also have money invested in Oil and Gas companies partly because I see natural gas as complementary technology to wind energy.

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