Fallout on amateurism

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
tmcats
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Re: Fallout on amateurism

Post by tmcats » May 27th, 2020, 10:56 am

Hypeman wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 7:27 am
tmcats wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 10:38 am

we have moved progressively toward cultural equity in america and particularly on campus. that's the underpinnings of this piece. that everyone should be treated fairly, however someone chooses to define that word. merit doesn't matter. it's now all about needs trumping accomplishment, being 'fair.'
TM, perhaps I’m wrong, but isn’t this what you are promoting by agreeing with a cap on athletes’ benefits? Why not let the market decide their worth, or at least let the schools decide how much they want to pay? Why do you claim to promote rewarding people based on merit but then you insist we do exactly the opposite as it pertains to these athletes?

The point I took from article is that requiring athletes to be in an environment deemed unsafe for other students would be further evidence they are here to line other people’s pockets and concern for them otherwise is limited. If I have to send my grad students who are getting tuition scholarships home because it would be unsafe, why doesn’t athletics send their “students” home too?

Maybe you think they are “essential” workers, like nurses, rather than “sweatshop” workers? But I’m not aware of a federal government cap on nursing pay?

Other people we treat like these athletes are criminals and gladiators. Gladiators also got fame and adulation. They also had the opportunity to fight to the death for their Caesar's entertainment. I see a lot of similarities between the treatment of football players and gladiators.

I wasn’t in the pay the players camp before because I like the idea of “students” engaging in co-curriculars including sports. But I now see the athletics department’s true colors and have changed my mind. They have absolutely nothing to do with helping students or education. Time to pay the players and start taxing athletic departments. They are not about student well being, they are about padding the pockets of a bunch of Caesars.
the major difference between professional and amateur athletics is how they are compensated. i don't believe public interests are served by fully professionalizing college sports. however, i have long argued that name, image, and likeness compensation should be allowed. your whole gladiator comparative is senseless to me but not worth debating if that's how you see a.j. parker, malik harris, and dajuan gordon.
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gdgjr78
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Post by gdgjr78 » May 27th, 2020, 12:28 pm

There are numerous other questions that must be answered as well. Do all athletes get paid across every single sport? Does the starting QB get paid the same as the 2nd string punter? Where does the money come from? Do the men's bball team get paid the same as the women's? Whose going to regulate it and oversee that its not corrupted? People pushing this idea say its not fair but as soon as the mens programs get paid more than the women's programs its going to cause them to scream its not fair too, its neverending
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PurpleOnWhite
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Post by PurpleOnWhite » May 27th, 2020, 12:44 pm

There will be a mass exodus of the traditional fan imo. My continued support will be in serious jeopardy.

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Post by bhoovy » May 27th, 2020, 1:17 pm

PurpleOnWhite wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 9:09 am
Many D1 football and basketball players would never set foot on a college campus without the athletic scholarship. Would they be better served going into the workforce (Or elsewhere) upon high school graduation or at least given an opportunity to obtain a degree? They have a free will to say no to the universities. And, at least to this guy who grew up with nothing and paid his way through college, the remuneration these D1 scholarship players are receiving is pretty nice compensation, NIL notwithstanding. Coaching salaries and facilities are another matter.
:agree:

No one is forcing anybody to go to school and play football, basketball, baseball, volleyball or any other collegiate sport. They are making a choice. They get a free education that many would gladly like the same opportunity if offered. And what they choose to do with that opportunity is totally up to them. They get pretty well taken care of. The new facilities at a great deal of these universities, living quarters and meals, all while being able to continue playing and participating an activity they love. Where do I sign to be that so called “piece of meat”.

And yes, coaching salaries are over inflated greatly. I’m still signing up if given the opportunity.

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Post by tmcats » May 27th, 2020, 2:32 pm

coaches get paid their value as defined by the profession's marketplace. that's no different than broadcasters, entertainers, media, or bricklayers for that matter. being head football coach is a difficult job which very few really excel across the field of universities fielding football teams. if there's a better way to do their contracts, i'd like to see it?
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Hypeman
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Post by Hypeman » May 27th, 2020, 3:07 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 2:32 pm
coaches get paid their value as defined by the profession's marketplace. that's no different than broadcasters, entertainers, media, or bricklayers for that matter. being head football coach is a difficult job which very few really excel across the field of universities fielding football teams. if there's a better way to do their contracts, i'd like to see it?
Not hardly, because in those fields there isn’t a salary cap on the hired help, there’s actually a salary floor. That salary cap is what allows coaches and the AD to run off with all the loot. College sports is nothing more that a new and clever form of labor racketeering. K-State sports might as well be KC Mob - West.

It’s time to open it up to free markets. You’re a
free market man aren’t you? I’m surprised you don’t agree.

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stlcatfan
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Post by stlcatfan » May 27th, 2020, 4:06 pm

gdgjr78 wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 12:28 pm
There are numerous other questions that must be answered as well. Do all athletes get paid across every single sport? Does the starting QB get paid the same as the 2nd string punter? Where does the money come from? Do the men's bball team get paid the same as the women's? Whose going to regulate it and oversee that its not corrupted? People pushing this idea say its not fair but as soon as the mens programs get paid more than the women's programs its going to cause them to scream its not fair too, its neverending
These are the exact same questions I have had about paying athletes. I would also add in this question: Do all schools get to pay the players whatever they want? If so, then schools like Texas and Oklahoma will have a huge advantage over the rest of the conference. Same with the big dogs in the other conferences as well.

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Post by tmcats » May 28th, 2020, 1:41 pm

Hypeman wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 3:07 pm
tmcats wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 2:32 pm
coaches get paid their value as defined by the profession's marketplace. that's no different than broadcasters, entertainers, media, or bricklayers for that matter. being head football coach is a difficult job which very few really excel across the field of universities fielding football teams. if there's a better way to do their contracts, i'd like to see it?
Not hardly, because in those fields there isn’t a salary cap on the hired help, there’s actually a salary floor. That salary cap is what allows coaches and the AD to run off with all the loot. College sports is nothing more that a new and clever form of labor racketeering. K-State sports might as well be KC Mob - West.

It’s time to open it up to free markets. You’re a
free market man aren’t you? I’m surprised you don’t agree.
i'm not sure how you leap from a discussion about coaches' salaries based on market conditions to caps and floors? there's no cap or floor that i'm aware of and players don't get a salary. very confusing.
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Hypeman
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Post by Hypeman » May 28th, 2020, 4:22 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 28th, 2020, 1:41 pm
Hypeman wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 3:07 pm


Not hardly, because in those fields there isn’t a salary cap on the hired help, there’s actually a salary floor. That salary cap is what allows coaches and the AD to run off with all the loot. College sports is nothing more that a new and clever form of labor racketeering. K-State sports might as well be KC Mob - West.

It’s time to open it up to free markets. You’re a
free market man aren’t you? I’m surprised you don’t agree.
i'm not sure how you leap from a discussion about coaches' salaries based on market conditions to caps and floors? there's no cap or floor that i'm aware of and players don't get a salary. very confusing.
Nice attempt at diversion and confusion. Players’ compensation is limited to tuition and a small stipend. That’s clearly a ceiling, imposed by a quasi gov’t entity. If they were able to demand a market rate for their services, the costs ‘might’ be much higher. Actually I don’t really know. Maybe they’d be lower. Either way, why not let the market for players decide? Aren’t you in favor of free markets?

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Post by tmcats » May 28th, 2020, 8:28 pm

no, i do not favor free-market compensation for amateurs sports other than name, image, and likeness compensation from third parties.
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