What happens downriver now

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
tmcats
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Re: What happens downriver now

Post by tmcats » May 15th, 2020, 12:42 pm

outside of izzo, who is getting some shade of late, there's not a single national championship on that list.

Outside the Lines also has obtained never-before-publicized reports of sexual or violent incidents involving members of Izzo's storied basketball program, including one report made against a former undergraduate student-assistant coach who was allowed to continue coaching after he had been criminally charged for punching a female MSU student in the face at a bar in 2010. A few months later, after the Spartans qualified for the 2010 Final Four, the same assistant coach was accused of sexually assaulting a different female student. ESPN
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Post by AJcat7755 » May 15th, 2020, 1:03 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 15th, 2020, 12:42 pm
outside of izzo, who is getting some shade of late, there's not a single national championship on that list.

Outside the Lines also has obtained never-before-publicized reports of sexual or violent incidents involving members of Izzo's storied basketball program, including one report made against a former undergraduate student-assistant coach who was allowed to continue coaching after he had been criminally charged for punching a female MSU student in the face at a bar in 2010. A few months later, after the Spartans qualified for the 2010 Final Four, the same assistant coach was accused of sexually assaulting a different female student. ESPN
Not a single NC, because Jay Wright has 2.

Not on the list is Tony Bennett, who has a NC as well. I don't know if I recall any dirty/cheating/scandals with him but there may be.

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Post by bhoovy » May 15th, 2020, 1:54 pm

AJcat7755 wrote:
May 15th, 2020, 1:03 pm
tmcats wrote:
May 15th, 2020, 12:42 pm
outside of izzo, who is getting some shade of late, there's not a single national championship on that list.

Outside the Lines also has obtained never-before-publicized reports of sexual or violent incidents involving members of Izzo's storied basketball program, including one report made against a former undergraduate student-assistant coach who was allowed to continue coaching after he had been criminally charged for punching a female MSU student in the face at a bar in 2010. A few months later, after the Spartans qualified for the 2010 Final Four, the same assistant coach was accused of sexually assaulting a different female student. ESPN
Not a single NC, because Jay Wright has 2.

Not on the list is Tony Bennett, who has a NC as well. I don't know if I recall any dirty/cheating/scandals with him but there may be.
Unless he updated the list Bennett is #3 on it.
So 3 coaches with NC’s on that list and at least 2 others who have played in the NC.

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Post by bhoovy » May 15th, 2020, 1:57 pm

mustang wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:39 pm
pulitzerdave wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 3:50 pm
Knight, Martin, they were both bullies. The only difference is one was (is) a more successful coach. So that coach (Knight) has certain sins forgiven by many. Just remember Lombardi's proverb - "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."

Winning normalizes bad behavior.
I'm not a Frank Martin expert like some on here obviously are. I never cared for coaches that berate players and preach discipline but have none of it themselves. Knight is the classic case, punched a cop while coaching in the Pan Am games, insulted people who did not share his narrow vision any chance he got, physically and mentally abused players. In the world of Knight any coach that was not in tune with him was either a cheater or a terrible coach.
That’s pretty much spot on mustang.

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Post by tmcats » May 15th, 2020, 2:12 pm

i saw st. mary's randy bennett not uva's. ha. and i just didn't see 'nova's coach at the top of that list, a guy i admire as a truly great coach as well.
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Post by bhoovy » May 15th, 2020, 2:15 pm

KsJoey wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 2:48 pm
Self is a good coach. Not as good as his cheating record indicates, but even when you compare him to other coaches who get similar talent, Self does well. He is one of the best at working refs and he and his staff have developed a lot players who weren't considered elite talent coming out of HS, into elite college players. But again, you can't overlook his decades of cheating and give him respect for his coaching abilities, unless you're a KU fan or blueblood homer.
I’m certainly no Self apologist, but he is a very very good coach. He’s been successful everywhere he’s been. He took a very poor Oral Roberts team and turned them into a 21 win squad. In his 3 years at Tulsa he was 74-27, won the conference twice and made the NCAA twice going to the second round and the elite 8. At Illinois he was 78-24 in his 3 years. Won the conference twice and second once. All 3 years in the NCAA played at least into the second round, with a sweet 16 and elite 8.

He is a very very good coach, but I think the success and desire to be among college basketball elites of all time got to be his desire and it ended up being at any cost. He would have been incredibly successful without cheating. Unfortunately that wasn’t good enough for him.
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Post by Hypeman » May 15th, 2020, 3:33 pm

bhoovy wrote:
May 15th, 2020, 2:15 pm
KsJoey wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 2:48 pm
Self is a good coach. Not as good as his cheating record indicates, but even when you compare him to other coaches who get similar talent, Self does well. He is one of the best at working refs and he and his staff have developed a lot players who weren't considered elite talent coming out of HS, into elite college players. But again, you can't overlook his decades of cheating and give him respect for his coaching abilities, unless you're a KU fan or blueblood homer.
I’m certainly no Self apologist, but he is a very very good coach. He’s been successful everywhere he’s been. He took a very poor Oral Roberts team and turned them into a 21 win squad. In his 3 years at Tulsa he was 74-27, won the conference twice and made the NCAA twice going to the second round and the elite 8. At Illinois he was 78-24 in his 3 years. Won the conference twice and second once. All 3 years in the NCAA played at least into the second round, with a sweet 16 and elite 8.

He is a very very good coach, but I think the success and desire to be among college basketball elites of all time got to be his desire and it ended up being at any cost. He would have been incredibly successful without cheating. Unfortunately that wasn’t good enough for him.
Spot on. He’s a good coach. But has a too much ego.

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Post by Hypeman » May 15th, 2020, 3:38 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 15th, 2020, 12:42 pm
outside of izzo, who is getting some shade of late, there's not a single national championship on that list.

Outside the Lines also has obtained never-before-publicized reports of sexual or violent incidents involving members of Izzo's storied basketball program, including one report made against a former undergraduate student-assistant coach who was allowed to continue coaching after he had been criminally charged for punching a female MSU student in the face at a bar in 2010. A few months later, after the Spartans qualified for the 2010 Final Four, the same assistant coach was accused of sexually assaulting a different female student. ESPN
Nothing is new here. It’s Michigan State. Remember when Scott Skiles got let out of his handcuffs just long enough to play in the final four?

Until you get the money out of college sports, it’s always going to be corrupt. Maybe it’s time for a salary cap?

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Post by tmcats » May 15th, 2020, 3:39 pm

their football coach left under very strange circumstances.
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Post by Highway26north » May 15th, 2020, 4:25 pm

If I'm not mistaken, Beard, Weber, Few and Ryan all coached in, and lost, the title game--Ryan and Weber under questionable circumstances to the ACC bluebloods.

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