What happens downriver now

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
hilltopwildcat
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Re: What happens downriver now

Post by hilltopwildcat » May 14th, 2020, 6:09 pm

Jack Hartman? Anybody at one of his practices?

I still think hairpiece goes and the beaks beg off. Hell, with a year out, Billy could get a GRCOAT like Huggie........LMAO.

pulitzerdave
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Post by pulitzerdave » May 14th, 2020, 7:05 pm

gdgjr78 wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:34 pm
tmcats wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:05 pm
three national championships, an olympic gold, not a hint of cheating (cough, cough, frankie), and all but 4 of his four-year players graduating were among the difference between the elite and comical, yes.

Bob Knight
As player:
NCAA champion (1960)
As head coach:
3× NCAA Division I Tournament (1976, 1981, 1987)
5× Final Four (1973, 1976, 1981, 1987, 1992)
11× Big Ten regular season (1973–1976, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1993)
NIT (1979)
Awards
2× Henry Iba Award (1975, 1989)
Naismith College Coach of the Year (1987)
3× AP Coach of the Year (1975, 1976, 1989)
Clair Bee Coach of the Year Award (2002)
8× Big Ten Coach of the Year (1973, 1975, 1976, 1980, 1981, 1989, 1992, 1993)

Frank Martin
NCAA Regional—Final Four (2017)
Awards
Big 12 Coach of the Year (2010)
Jim Phelan Award (2017)
USBWA District VI Coach of the Year (2010)
NABC District 8 Coach of the Year (2010)
Naismith Award for Men's Outstanding Contribution to Basketball (2007)
Ok so now I know where you both stand. Yelling, swearing, and being abusive towards players is okay as long as you win enough but cheating (paying players etc) is a despicable offense and inexcusable no matter how much you win. Interesting stuff
gdgjr78 wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:34 pm
tmcats wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:05 pm
three national championships, an olympic gold, not a hint of cheating (cough, cough, frankie), and all but 4 of his four-year players graduating were among the difference between the elite and comical, yes.

Bob Knight
As player:
NCAA champion (1960)
As head coach:
3× NCAA Division I Tournament (1976, 1981, 1987)
5× Final Four (1973, 1976, 1981, 1987, 1992)
11× Big Ten regular season (1973–1976, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1993)
NIT (1979)
Awards
2× Henry Iba Award (1975, 1989)
Naismith College Coach of the Year (1987)
3× AP Coach of the Year (1975, 1976, 1989)
Clair Bee Coach of the Year Award (2002)
8× Big Ten Coach of the Year (1973, 1975, 1976, 1980, 1981, 1989, 1992, 1993)

Frank Martin
NCAA Regional—Final Four (2017)
Awards
Big 12 Coach of the Year (2010)
Jim Phelan Award (2017)
USBWA District VI Coach of the Year (2010)
NABC District 8 Coach of the Year (2010)
Naismith Award for Men's Outstanding Contribution to Basketball (2007)
Ok so now I know where you both stand. Yelling, swearing, and being abusive towards players is okay as long as you win enough but cheating (paying players etc) is a despicable offense and inexcusable no matter how much you win. Interesting stuff
That is NOT where I stand. But it is where many people stand - forgiving or ignoring certain things, cheating, bullying, etc., for the sake of winning. I was merely pointing it out.

Neither coach has my respect or admiration because abuse trumps winning.

Great coaches neither bully nor cheat. So maybe there really aren't very many "great" coaches!

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Sir Ocelot
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Post by Sir Ocelot » May 14th, 2020, 9:58 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winning_i ... only_thing

History of the "winning isn't everything" quote.

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gdgjr78
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Post by gdgjr78 » May 14th, 2020, 10:54 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 7:05 pm
gdgjr78 wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:34 pm


Ok so now I know where you both stand. Yelling, swearing, and being abusive towards players is okay as long as you win enough but cheating (paying players etc) is a despicable offense and inexcusable no matter how much you win. Interesting stuff
gdgjr78 wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:34 pm


Ok so now I know where you both stand. Yelling, swearing, and being abusive towards players is okay as long as you win enough but cheating (paying players etc) is a despicable offense and inexcusable no matter how much you win. Interesting stuff
That is NOT where I stand. But it is where many people stand - forgiving or ignoring certain things, cheating, bullying, etc., for the sake of winning. I was merely pointing it out.

Neither coach has my respect or admiration because abuse trumps winning.

Great coaches neither bully nor cheat. So maybe there really aren't very many "great" coaches!
Ok I respect your position and objection to Martin then. Let's hope the new guys are supremely successful next year.
"Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

learnin
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Post by learnin » May 14th, 2020, 11:25 pm

hilltopwildcat wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 6:09 pm
Jack Hartman? Anybody at one of his practices?

I still think hairpiece goes and the beaks beg off. Hell, with a year out, Billy could get a GRCOAT like Huggie........LMAO.
Have you ever stood beside Bob Knight when Bob Knight was young?

learnin
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Post by learnin » May 14th, 2020, 11:26 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 7:05 pm
gdgjr78 wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:34 pm


Ok so now I know where you both stand. Yelling, swearing, and being abusive towards players is okay as long as you win enough but cheating (paying players etc) is a despicable offense and inexcusable no matter how much you win. Interesting stuff
gdgjr78 wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 4:34 pm


Ok so now I know where you both stand. Yelling, swearing, and being abusive towards players is okay as long as you win enough but cheating (paying players etc) is a despicable offense and inexcusable no matter how much you win. Interesting stuff
That is NOT where I stand. But it is where many people stand - forgiving or ignoring certain things, cheating, bullying, etc., for the sake of winning. I was merely pointing it out.

Neither coach has my respect or admiration because abuse trumps winning.

Great coaches neither bully nor cheat. So maybe there really aren't very many "great" coaches!
Precisely, pdave. I agree.
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pulitzerdave (May 15th, 2020, 6:40 pm)

Highway26north
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Post by Highway26north » May 15th, 2020, 3:18 am

So who are they in the college ranks that neither bully nor cheat and still manage to win? Of course I'll forget many, but here are a (F)ew based on my observation and NO inside info. Bear in mind, I know nothing!

Wright (my personal nightmare is he ends up in Lawrence)
Few
Beard
Bennett
Izzo
Beilein (does we count him anymore?)
Buzz Williams
Brey
Weber
Kruger
Drew (not sure about the cheating part)
Painter


From the recent past: Bo Ryan

hilltopwildcat
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Post by hilltopwildcat » May 15th, 2020, 10:56 am

learnin wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 11:25 pm
hilltopwildcat wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 6:09 pm
Jack Hartman? Anybody at one of his practices?

I still think hairpiece goes and the beaks beg off. Hell, with a year out, Billy could get a GRCOAT like Huggie........LMAO.
Have you ever stood beside Bob Knight when Bob Knight was young?
No. Working on the catwalks in the Fieldhouse was close enough for me.
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learnin (May 15th, 2020, 11:36 pm)

AJcat7755
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Pick 'Em

Post by AJcat7755 » May 15th, 2020, 11:56 am

Highway26north wrote:
May 15th, 2020, 3:18 am
So who are they in the college ranks that neither bully nor cheat and still manage to win? Of course I'll forget many, but here are a (F)ew based on my observation and NO inside info. Bear in mind, I know nothing!

Wright (my personal nightmare is he ends up in Lawrence)
Few
Beard
Bennett
Izzo
Beilein (does we count him anymore?)
Buzz Williams
Brey
Weber
Kruger
Drew (not sure about the cheating part)
Painter


From the recent past: Bo Ryan
Izzo might have lost his luster. Michigan State was investigated as part of the current scandal, although they were cleared, but it does bring up some questions as to why they were even looked at.

They also had sexual assault cases involving several basketball players in 2015. "Three Michigan State basketball players raped a student in 2015, one week after the Final Four loss to Duke, and the university coerced the woman not to report it to authorities, according to a federal lawsuit. "

Not saying Izzo is at fault, but it does take the shine off his image of being squeaky clean.

Highway26north
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Post by Highway26north » May 15th, 2020, 12:19 pm

AJ--I thought about Izzo too. But it's crystal clear that the powers that be in the Mich State athletics dept are/were for many years completely corrupt. e.g. gymnastics, for example, I don't think it's fair to paint Izzo with that brush. Maybe the AD did it at Izzo's urging; maybe over Izzo's objections; or maybe Izzo figured it wasn't his call to make. My cut was based primarily on perceived general honesty in recruiting, and perceived general decency. My strong impression is that Izzo is generally decent.

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