What happens downriver now

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
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learnin
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Re: What happens downriver now

Post by learnin » May 12th, 2020, 8:26 pm

bhoovy wrote:
May 12th, 2020, 6:33 pm
learnin wrote:
May 12th, 2020, 5:45 pm


You're absolutely right and K should never be mentioned in the same company as Bob Knight and a handful of other successful coaches who did it the right way. I never liked Knight and his bullying, but I respect the man as being one of the best, if not, the best coach the college game has seen.
Self, K, Cal, Pearl, Wooden, et.al., should never be mentioned with the great coaches who did it the right way.
To me Knight isn’t much better, if any, for how poorly he treats others. I just flat wouldn’t allow a son of mine to play for him and I’ve pulled against him just as much as those others. Knight’s a totally slime ball from pretty much everything I’ve seen of him.
I wouldn't argue with you. Which is why I stated I didn't like him. Still, when it came to coaching the game, there was few, if any, who were better.

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Post by tmcats » May 13th, 2020, 9:36 am

being harsh on bob knight may just be baiting me, so i'm not going to bite. for me, he's the michael jordan of coaches. he demanded the best and got it without bending the rules. he and mike were close for a reason. knight was the last coach to win the olympics with college players only. guys like john thompson couldn't do it. he won three national championships. and his '76 undefeated national champs were the last ncaa team to go undefeated. many feel they were the greatest college team ever. and oh, all but four of his four-year players graduated from iu. he'll soon be gone, sadly.

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Section 12-2 (May 13th, 2020, 5:05 pm)
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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Post by wild@nite » May 13th, 2020, 10:45 am

One thing I appreciate about Bob Knight is that he called out cheaters. My problem with him is that he thought he was above treating people with respect. On and off the floor. Good coach, but classic bully and a$$hole when you get right down to it. The ridiculous things he's done in dealing with people just saps the respect away, imo.

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Post by tmcats » May 13th, 2020, 11:11 am

yes, knight was a complete ass in many ways, much like jordan is accused of being, i might add. i knew him personally through some business dealings. he was the most intimidating person i've ever met in my life.
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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Post by learnin » May 13th, 2020, 2:59 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 11:11 am
yes, knight was a complete ass in many ways, much like jordan is accused of being, i might add. i knew him personally through some business dealings. he was the most intimidating person i've ever met in my life.
Indeed. I remember vividly one evening walking through a tunnel with 2 of my buddies on our way to a court side seat and Coach Knight was standing up against a wall. I remember him watching us go by and thinking, “I hope we’re not walking in the wrong area!”

On the other hand, we were at an AAU game one afternoon and Coach Knight was sitting a few feet down to our side. My daughter, and her friend, 4th grade, went down to talk with him. He signed her shoe and joked around with both of them. She was thrilled.

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Post by Section 12-2 » May 13th, 2020, 5:09 pm

If you want to know more about Coach Knight talk to some of his former players. He was indeed a hard ass but most of his former players have good things to say about him.

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Post by wild@nite » May 13th, 2020, 7:45 pm

Section 12-2 wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 5:09 pm
If you want to know more about Coach Knight talk to some of his former players. He was indeed a hard ass but most of his former players have good things to say about him.
I've only talked with one. I worked HOA basketball camps with him. He didn't hate him, but he certainly didn't seem in love with him. He told a couple of stories that makes you wonder about Knight's sanity. It was far more than verbal abuse. Just downright nasty stuff. Also, you have to ask more than his players. Ask his secretaries. Ask his assistant coaches. Ask the managers. Throwing a vase at a secretary is again, a little whacko. Ask Mark Janssen (retired sports writer for the Manhattan Mercury) about 'ol Bully Bobby when they first met at the Manhattan Country Club when the olympic team was there practicing for the 1984 Olympics.

I'm perfectly fine with a coach being a hard ass. Coaches need to be hard asses at times. Bobby was more than a hard ass. Way more.

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Post by bhoovy » May 13th, 2020, 7:55 pm

learnin wrote:
May 12th, 2020, 8:26 pm
bhoovy wrote:
May 12th, 2020, 6:33 pm


To me Knight isn’t much better, if any, for how poorly he treats others. I just flat wouldn’t allow a son of mine to play for him and I’ve pulled against him just as much as those others. Knight’s a totally slime ball from pretty much everything I’ve seen of him.
I wouldn't argue with you. Which is why I stated I didn't like him. Still, when it came to coaching the game, there was few, if any, who were better.
Self is a very good coach also, as well as some of the others that have been mentioned when it comes to cheating or something that resembles cheating (Cal, K, Pitino)
Does the cheating disqualify them as very good coaches? Does the winning justify the cheating?

Same with Knight. Does being a complete jerk, crude, rude, belligerent bully disqualify him as a very good coach? Does his winning justify him being a complete jerk, crude, rude, belligerent bully??

You can’t separate the two for either. They are who they are and I don’t have any respect or appreciation for what they’ve accomplished.

You don’t have to cheat or be a crude, rude, belligerent jerk bully to be successful.

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Post by gdgjr78 » May 14th, 2020, 4:51 am

The irony of so many posters lauding knight in this thread but acting outraged at the way Martin coached is beyond belief 🤣. Apparently hypocrisy knows no bounds on this board
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Post by katlander » May 14th, 2020, 10:03 am

Some coaches and players seem to need to be jerks to have success. John McEnroe is a classic example. Dude was a jerk but also an amazing over achiever. His anger seemed to be the driving force which fueled him to the top of the world rankings. Without his angry style he likely would have never made it to a finals match. Jordan was really rough on his teammates but demanded their best which brought them rings. He put unreal pressure on himself and almost always delivered. Amazing and surreal. Competition brings out the best and worst in people. Some people just can't stand to lose. Many of the greatest players share that trait.

Some of these guys are really nice off the court or out of the arena. Although their behavior makes it hard not to dislike them during the game or match most are very likable in real life. I've always liked Jordan. I talked to Frank several times and he was great. I like Bobby Knight and McEnroe as commentators. But all of those dudes are out to win and don't make a lot of friends on game day.

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