some chatter from mike and d'gordon ...

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
katlander
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Re: some chatter from mike and d'gordon ...

Post by katlander » May 11th, 2020, 11:18 am

I think that is a fair assessment pdave. i think he was hurt a bit and the team atmosphere was toxic. Not a great scenario for freshman growth but I too was a little disappointed with his play. I really like his attitude and am very happy that he is a part of the team. I think he will be a good player for us but just how good and what his role will be remains to be seen. My guess is that he will excel at some facet of the game and will be a special player here before he is done.
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tmcats (May 11th, 2020, 12:12 pm)

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Post by learnin » May 12th, 2020, 8:48 pm

It would be interesting, at least for me, to know exactly when D. Gordon tweaked his leg. It seemed to me that he was much more explosive around the basket early on in the season. Now, he missed some put back dunks because the ball was just too far off the rim when he corralled it, but there would have been more than a few highlight plays during his freshman year had the ball bounced better for the young man.

I, also, cannot remember a guard getting his hands on so many free throw misses when that guard's team was shooting. He pulled off a good number of offensive boards for a newcomer and, again, if the ball had bounced a little differently, he would have had a few more steals and rebounds to help his stats.

I do agree with pdave that D. Gordon's ball handling skills, in traffic, is suspect. That could be his Achilles' heel, which could keep him from being a star instead of a solid role player. As I've mentioned in earlier threads, there was a great deal of physicality this year in the paint. Hopefully, this got into his brain, a bit, as a freshman. Time will tell if he can compensate and gain confidence.

I think his shooting will continue to improve. I'm anxious to see how the young man progresses.
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pulitzerdave (May 12th, 2020, 9:00 pm)

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Post by pulitzerdave » May 12th, 2020, 9:09 pm

learnin wrote:
May 12th, 2020, 8:48 pm
It would be interesting, at least for me, to know exactly when D. Gordon tweaked his leg. It seemed to me that he was much more explosive around the basket early on in the season. Now, he missed some put back dunks because the ball was just too far off the rim when he corralled it, but there would have been more than a few highlight plays during his freshman year had the ball bounced better for the young man.

I, also, cannot remember a guard getting his hands on so many free throw misses when that guard's team was shooting. He pulled off a good number of offensive boards for a newcomer and, again, if the ball had bounced a little differently, he would have had a few more steals and rebounds to help his stats.

I do agree with pdave that D. Gordon's ball handling skills, in traffic, is suspect. That could be his Achilles' heel, which could keep him from being a star instead of a solid role player. As I've mentioned in earlier threads, there was a great deal of physicality this year in the paint. Hopefully, this got into his brain, a bit, as a freshman. Time will tell if he can compensate and gain confidence.

I think his shooting will continue to improve. I'm anxious to see how the young man progresses.
I agree that D.Gordon can be a disrupter. Maybe that will be his biggest contribution along with leadership. If he develops into 10-12 ppg scorer, that would be very good. If he can shoot 40% from the 3-point line, that will be exceptional. But unless his ball handling improves dramatically, his game will not match his athleticism. That was the one shocking thing I noticed throughout the year. A 2-guard who can't contribute in breaking a press, dribbling out of double teams and using his ball handling skills to get open shots, is not an asset at this level. If I were him, I'd sleep with a basketball, dribble it to the gym and everywhere else he goes. It needs to be a part of him!
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learnin (May 13th, 2020, 3:08 pm)

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Post by tmcats » May 13th, 2020, 9:31 am

being healthy, getting stronger, and a year's experience will make him a much better player next season.
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Post by katlander » May 14th, 2020, 11:43 am

Can a player drastically improve his ball handling skills? I was no star player but was OK. May be fair to say my game was similar to DG less the athleticism (-: Kind of an undersized 4 banger who could shoot. I learned to compensate for suspect ball handling largely by passing it and not dribbling into heavy traffic. I just played recreationally and never slept with the ball. I did occasionally have a ball in my bed but not a basketball. (-: At one point I played a lot and did work to get better with the dribble and did improve, some. Hopefully the coaches will be all over DG to improve in this area and I think he will. Until then he may be well served to let the game come to him and not try to force the dribble drive. Focus on passing cutting and taking the open shot. If a lane to hoop opens take it but be careful not to dribble into trouble. if he does this it should buy him time to improve.

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Post by pulitzerdave » May 14th, 2020, 9:42 pm

katlander wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 11:43 am
Can a player drastically improve his ball handling skills? I was no star player but was OK. May be fair to say my game was similar to DG less the athleticism (-: Kind of an undersized 4 banger who could shoot. I learned to compensate for suspect ball handling largely by passing it and not dribbling into heavy traffic. I just played recreationally and never slept with the ball. I did occasionally have a ball in my bed but not a basketball. (-: At one point I played a lot and did work to get better with the dribble and did improve, some. Hopefully the coaches will be all over DG to improve in this area and I think he will. Until then he may be well served to let the game come to him and not try to force the dribble drive. Focus on passing cutting and taking the open shot. If a lane to hoop opens take it but be careful not to dribble into trouble. if he does this it should buy him time to improve.
The main thing D.Gordon needs to learn, is how to utilize the ability that he has at the stage of development that he is in. I felt that last year he tried to do things that we was not yet capable of doing on a consistent basis. Much of that was tied to his poor ball handling. Until he's able to maneuver with the basketball, like Barry Brown did his final two years, he should take baby steps to become that complete player.

How about starting with a mid-range game. Work on a two or three dribble game that frees you up for a jump shot. Learn to dribble off of ball screens. Learn a jump stop and shoot move. Learn to shoot a floater. These are some of the things that I rarely saw him do. And he certainly has the athleticism to add this to his game. It seems that with some of the kids who come out of high school, it was either shoot the 3, or get to the rim. Nothing much in-between. When they get to the college level, one aspect of their game that was so easy in high school (driving and finishing at the rim) has been taken away. The defenders are so much better and stronger in college than in high school.

So often these star players revert to the 3-point shot, because that's easier to do. It takes time to develop the strength, body control and dribbling ability to get to the rim, and then another level of athleticism and strength to actually finish the shot. D.Gordon has a long way to go. But I think he needs to start building his game from the 3-point line in. And I'm talking about all 20 feet of that. I think he could be a really good mid-range player, but only if he wants to be.
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Highway26north (May 15th, 2020, 2:32 am) • kswildcat (May 15th, 2020, 8:25 am)

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Post by learnin » May 14th, 2020, 11:34 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 9:42 pm
katlander wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 11:43 am
Can a player drastically improve his ball handling skills? I was no star player but was OK. May be fair to say my game was similar to DG less the athleticism (-: Kind of an undersized 4 banger who could shoot. I learned to compensate for suspect ball handling largely by passing it and not dribbling into heavy traffic. I just played recreationally and never slept with the ball. I did occasionally have a ball in my bed but not a basketball. (-: At one point I played a lot and did work to get better with the dribble and did improve, some. Hopefully the coaches will be all over DG to improve in this area and I think he will. Until then he may be well served to let the game come to him and not try to force the dribble drive. Focus on passing cutting and taking the open shot. If a lane to hoop opens take it but be careful not to dribble into trouble. if he does this it should buy him time to improve.
The main thing D.Gordon needs to learn, is how to utilize the ability that he has at the stage of development that he is in. I felt that last year he tried to do things that we was not yet capable of doing on a consistent basis. Much of that was tied to his poor ball handling. Until he's able to maneuver with the basketball, like Barry Brown did his final two years, he should take baby steps to become that complete player.

How about starting with a mid-range game. Work on a two or three dribble game that frees you up for a jump shot. Learn to dribble off of ball screens. Learn a jump stop and shoot move. Learn to shoot a floater. These are some of the things that I rarely saw him do. And he certainly has the athleticism to add this to his game. It seems that with some of the kids who come out of high school, it was either shoot the 3, or get to the rim. Nothing much in-between. When they get to the college level, one aspect of their game that was so easy in high school (driving and finishing at the rim) has been taken away. The defenders are so much better and stronger in college than in high school.

So often these star players revert to the 3-point shot, because that's easier to do. It takes time to develop the strength, body control and dribbling ability to get to the rim, and then another level of athleticism and strength to actually finish the shot. D.Gordon has a long way to go. But I think he needs to start building his game from the 3-point line in. And I'm talking about all 20 feet of that. I think he could be a really good mid-range player, but only if he wants to be.
Good thoughts, Dave. As you point out, the young man will need to adapt his game to his skill set. He might take an example from Barry Brown who stopped being a 3 point shooter and began to work on a mid range game and taking the ball to the hoop. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
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kswildcat (May 15th, 2020, 8:25 am) • pulitzerdave (May 15th, 2020, 10:45 am)

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Post by kswildcat » May 15th, 2020, 8:27 am

Great points, gentlemen. The mid range game is so lacking. The two or three dribble game is seldom seen today.
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pulitzerdave (May 15th, 2020, 10:44 am)

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Post by pulitzerdave » May 15th, 2020, 10:53 am

kswildcat wrote:
May 15th, 2020, 8:27 am
Great points, gentlemen. The mid range game is so lacking. The two or three dribble game is seldom seen today.
Girls basketball in Iowa used to have a two dribble limit in the 6 on 6 era. As antiquated and restrictive as that seems now, it was a lesson in how to utilize those two dribbles, along with ball movement to create open shots. Not a bad thing to study today. Today's game has too much dribbling.

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Post by tmcats » May 15th, 2020, 11:02 am

i was a youngster then. my mother-in-law played on akron's state championship team. iowans loved their 6-player game but it went down with feminism and thankfully so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghgnJrOgbjw
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