Way too early Big 12 power rankings

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
Quietstorm5
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Re: Way too early Big 12 power rankings

Post by Quietstorm5 » May 1st, 2020, 2:29 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 1st, 2020, 10:29 am
your points are well taken here. but this happens in all walks of life, sadly. look at politics today. people will not stand up for what is right but rather default to party talking points.

and i've heard weber do that time after time when he said things like: well, i was surprised. what the hell, bruce, no you weren't. you live in the cesspool.
I understand where you are coming from with this because I used to feel the same way but unfortunately it isn't that simple. It would be great if just standing up to the crooks and shysters would bring it to and end but it doesn't and won't. Weber's time at Illinois has shown that.

There was an article in the Sun-Times about Anthony Davis father openly soliciting $150,000 for his son to play for a school and surprise surprise he ends up at one of the more well known dirty programs. His family didn't like the article and said it wasn't true. They threatened legal action but the newspaper stood by it and called their bluff because they had proof from sources one of them being a coach who wouldn't even entertain it that type of recruiting. Well the family dropped it because, most likely they knew it would open them up to it being proven true. Nothing happened to Davis, his family or Kentucky. However, many assumed the coach to be Weber and he got nothing but backlash and negative recruiting against him for it and that's without anyone really knowing if it was him!
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Highway26north (May 2nd, 2020, 6:03 am)

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Post by wild@nite » May 1st, 2020, 3:59 pm

Nobody said it would be easy. Rarely is anything worthwhile, easy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting naming recruits, but be outspoken about the rampid cheating amongst certain schools. The A.D's and presidents too. Bruce has been around long enough that recruits and parents know he's not on the take, so negative recruiting? Big deal. Bruce woukd also get some kids if he took a stance. I know one thing, if my job performance was being effected by dishonest people around me, I'd take offense to it. I guess the ludicrous paycheck speaks volumes and why nobody is willing to fight it. Sad.

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Post by Quietstorm5 » May 1st, 2020, 4:55 pm

wild@nite wrote:
May 1st, 2020, 3:59 pm
Nobody said it would be easy. Rarely is anything worthwhile, easy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting naming recruits, but be outspoken about the rampid cheating amongst certain schools. The A.D's and presidents too. Bruce has been around long enough that recruits and parents know he's not on the take, so negative recruiting? Big deal. Bruce woukd also get some kids if he took a stance. I know one thing, if my job performance was being effected by dishonest people around me, I'd take offense to it. I guess the ludicrous paycheck speaks volumes and why nobody is willing to fight it. Sad.
There is more to negative recruiting than being called dirty. There have been a couple of very horrible things implied about him for just being assumed to be a coach that was the source for pointing out the dirtiness of one recruits family and the school he went to. Nothing good or useful came from it. So why would anyone risk it? As you stated people all know his is clean and he has been voted one of the 10 cleanest coaches by other coaches in a couple of anonymous polls. He has that reputation while also essentially averaging a conference championship every 4 years over the course of a 20 year career. There just isn't any upside to being the "loser coach just complaining because he can't recruit well". It would be great if there was and if the NCAA would put more effort into cleaning it up but history has shown the risk/reward isn't there especially if you are doing pretty decent anyway.
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Highway26north (May 2nd, 2020, 6:06 am)

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Post by tmcats » May 1st, 2020, 5:35 pm

you make my point, quietstorm. it's pervasive in american culture today. do not rock the boat or you'll pay the price because the privileged have firewalls in place.
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Quietstorm5 (May 1st, 2020, 5:55 pm) • Highway26north (May 2nd, 2020, 6:06 am)
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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Post by wild@nite » May 1st, 2020, 6:02 pm

Quietstorm5 wrote:
May 1st, 2020, 4:55 pm
wild@nite wrote:
May 1st, 2020, 3:59 pm
Nobody said it would be easy. Rarely is anything worthwhile, easy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting naming recruits, but be outspoken about the rampid cheating amongst certain schools. The A.D's and presidents too. Bruce has been around long enough that recruits and parents know he's not on the take, so negative recruiting? Big deal. Bruce woukd also get some kids if he took a stance. I know one thing, if my job performance was being effected by dishonest people around me, I'd take offense to it. I guess the ludicrous paycheck speaks volumes and why nobody is willing to fight it. Sad.
There is more to negative recruiting than being called dirty. There have been a couple of very horrible things implied about him for just being assumed to be a coach that was the source for pointing out the dirtiness of one recruits family and the school he went to. Nothing good or useful came from it. So why would anyone risk it? As you stated people all know his is clean and he has been voted one of the 10 cleanest coaches by other coaches in a couple of anonymous polls. He has that reputation while also essentially averaging a conference championship every 4 years over the course of a 20 year career. There just isn't any upside to being the "loser coach just complaining because he can't recruit well". It would be great if there was and if the NCAA would put more effort into cleaning it up but history has shown the risk/reward isn't there especially if you are doing pretty decent anyway.
Why would anyone risk it? Because it's ruining college basketball. Pretty simple. I'm not saying go alone, but form a committee and start the ball rolling. I'd rather be the "loser" coach complaining to try and regain the integrity of the game then coaching with no real shot, but I'm not making 3 million either.

I think many, many people would respect him for it. Who cares what people would say. Do what's right. I'm not saying this is Bruce's responsibility, but I do think he owns a share of it.

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Post by wild@nite » May 1st, 2020, 6:06 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 1st, 2020, 5:35 pm
you make my point, quietstorm. it's pervasive in american culture today. do not rock the boat or you'll pay the price because the privileged have firewalls in place.
Indeed, which is why you don't go alone. American culture takes advantage of those who won't stand up for themselves but gives plenty of attention to groups who speak the truth.

Highway26north
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Post by Highway26north » May 2nd, 2020, 2:15 am

This is a very good discussion. There's a "don't kill the Golden Goose" aspect to this. The people who would have tremendous influence to fix it are the charter members of the ESPN hype machine-Bilas, Dickie V. Those two are such whores you can't really expect better of them. But there are a couple of renegades who are smart and might plausibly have the guts to call it out: Dakich, Bardo. But they are small potatoes and they're making a good living not rocking the boat. Barkley could certainly do it and he'd be a good candidate. He'd have to wait until Pearl leaves Auburn.

A major problem is that a huge beneficiary of the system is the African American community and you're not going to make much of a living as a winning NCAA coach if you piss off the African American community. It's not realistic to expect someone with Weber's stature to take it on alone. You'd need a "coalition of the honest." I know nothing but I'd think the roster could include, say, Bennett, Belein, Beard, Painter...But none of them has anything like the stature of a Bobby Knight. And the hype machine would call it sour grapes. They stay silent and get pats on the head for being "great coaches" but not for being "honest great coaches."

I infer that the new rule allowing player endorsements is designed to be a reform but I think it's far more likely to make things worse. That will become an adjunct of the ESPN hype machine and it will only enhance the stature of the cheating coaches. Their players will draw the biggest endorsement checks because they are "Coach K's boys" and come with the ESPN seal of approval. Imagine Zion doing ads for Nike. Wow.

Only the best 1% of fans even give a damn about who's a successful honest coach. That will never change as long as the marketing department considers it taboo even to mention honesty. And if you mention it pretty soon you're talking about icons like Wooden and Coach K and everybody wants to change the subject. I think Self and Cal are the two that are SO notoriously dirty that even casual fans understand they are crooks. Pearl is one rung lower on the ladder only because he's not as well-known. So subtle shots occasionally get taken at Pearl, but never at Self or K. The NCAA championship game when those two matched up was the perfect storm, but I bet if you go back and listen to the broadcast you won't find a mention of the scumbag coaches on both benches. You can't reward honesty and integrity if nobody marketing the game is willing to talk about it. Do I wish Bruce would speak out a little about it from time to time for publication? Yes. But I understand why he doesn't.
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tmcats (May 2nd, 2020, 10:18 am)

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Post by SCKSCat » May 2nd, 2020, 7:58 am

5th place in league due to team depth. We will be better at shooting and free throws. We lost close games at the line.

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Post by katlander » May 2nd, 2020, 9:43 am

SCKSCat wrote:
May 2nd, 2020, 7:58 am
5th place in league due to team depth. We will be better at shooting and free throws. We lost close games at the line.
If you are right we are in for a nice ride the next 2 or 3 years.

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Post by katlander » May 2nd, 2020, 9:45 am

Its not Weber's job to clean up this mess. Its the NCAA. Until they do their job nothing will change. They are the worst, IMO. They alllll need to be fired and bring in honest folk. Unwillingness to do this speaks volumes. If the NCAA has their back I suspect some honest coaches will speak up.

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