Way too early Big 12 power rankings

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
KsJoey
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Re: Way too early Big 12 power rankings

Post by KsJoey » April 29th, 2020, 11:48 pm

I haven't read all the posts here. Don't have the time nowadays. But I read the original article posted... which was pretty generic. Lots of errors and anybody could make that assumption with the amount of new guys and guys not returning. Poorly written, but still the idea that we're picked last isn't a surprise. It makes sense in a lot of ways. When you have so many unproven/unexperienced players which are expected to provide majority of the minutes, you have a lot of question marks. Even if this team hits well with a new player or 2 (similar to Foster), this team will still probably not be an NCAA caliber team. Weber built teams need experienced players, simple as that. He needs talented 4 year guys that can then play the equivalent of a 4-5 * freshman. With such a slim upper class right now, success isn't going to happen this year. It "might" not happen next year. But it "might' happen in year 3 if things pan out. When this incoming class are Juniors, watch out. But that's only if they mostly stay together and if Bruce can develop a legit bigman...something that's a rarity for him outside of Wade.

You can turn a lot of Good (but not great) talent into great talent, if they can become a senior. Bruce's model needs to be recruiting top 150 caliber talent with a burning desire to be better, and coach it up so that in year 3-4, it is a force. Having upperclassmen that understand and can mature in his somewhat complicated offensive scheme is extremely valuable
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gdgjr78 (April 30th, 2020, 12:25 am) • hilltopwildcat (May 7th, 2020, 10:54 pm)

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gdgjr78
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Post by gdgjr78 » April 30th, 2020, 12:37 am

KsJoey wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 11:48 pm
I haven't read all the posts here. Don't have the time nowadays. But I read the original article posted... which was pretty generic. Lots of errors and anybody could make that assumption with the amount of new guys and guys not returning. Poorly written, but still the idea that we're picked last isn't a surprise. It makes sense in a lot of ways. When you have so many unproven/unexperienced players which are expected to provide majority of the minutes, you have a lot of question marks. Even if this team hits well with a new player or 2 (similar to Foster), this team will still probably not be an NCAA caliber team. Weber built teams need experienced players, simple as that. He needs talented 4 year guys that can then play the equivalent of a 4-5 * freshman. With such a slim upper class right now, success isn't going to happen this year. It "might" not happen next year. But it "might' happen in year 3 if things pan out. When this incoming class are Juniors, watch out. But that's only if they mostly stay together and if Bruce can develop a legit bigman...something that's a rarity for him outside of Wade.

You can turn a lot of Good (but not great) talent into great talent, if they can become a senior. Bruce's model needs to be recruiting top 150 caliber talent with a burning desire to be better, and coach it up so that in year 3-4, it is a force. Having upperclassmen that understand and can mature in his somewhat complicated offensive scheme is extremely valuable
I mostly agree with joeys breakdown except for 3 years from now. If KSU hasn't made the NCAA tourney in 2 years I'll be calling for webers replacement. Its his and the staffs fault for this total rebuild (again).
"Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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Post by epicsnyder » April 30th, 2020, 6:07 am

I don't blame them. If they are good enough to jump up, do it. If you aren't getting minutes, by all means go get some. The intent of my post was not to blame the players. They are just using the system to their advantage and more power to them. The issue, IMO, is that the schools and the NCAA are being exposed even more as the sham they are when it comes to providing an education to "student"-athletes that have no intention of being a student.

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Post by csteel25 » April 30th, 2020, 1:52 pm

One potential flaw in the "every three years we will be good" theory is the ground has shifted with transfers. So that will make it tougher.

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Post by Puffdad » April 30th, 2020, 10:47 pm

csteel25 wrote:
April 30th, 2020, 1:52 pm
One potential flaw in the "every three years we will be good" theory is the ground has shifted with transfers. So that will make it tougher.
The contributing players will stay unless a program has some seriously bad issues. The ones who aren’t playing much will seek greener pastures.

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Post by Hypeman » May 1st, 2020, 7:16 am

Puffdad wrote:
April 30th, 2020, 10:47 pm
csteel25 wrote:
April 30th, 2020, 1:52 pm
One potential flaw in the "every three years we will be good" theory is the ground has shifted with transfers. So that will make it tougher.
The contributing players will stay unless a program has some seriously bad issues. The ones who aren’t playing much will seek greener pastures.
Seems reasonable that they should have the right to do that for playing time or many other good reasons.

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Post by wild@nite » May 1st, 2020, 10:15 am

csteel25 wrote:
April 30th, 2020, 1:52 pm
One potential flaw in the "every three years we will be good" theory is the ground has shifted with transfers. So that will make it tougher.
Another flaw is the mindset that we have to accept down years every 3rd year. I love that Weber is clean, but because of that, several on here, I feel, think like that. Look, this is my theory. If the NCAA is that corrupt that we are ok with having 2-3 bad years for every 2 good years, then why the hell isn't Weber or GT leading the charge in trying to get a fix? Speak up. I've been saying this for several years. If they aren't willing to do this, then they are part of the problem. If they are worried about being labeled over trying to clean up the game, then that's pretty selfish.

It's time for the clean coaches, and A.D's like Bruce to have a voice. Grow some balls and sell out the cheaters.

If they aren't willing to try and help clean it up, then why should I feel bad about bitching about an 11 win season in year 8?

Bruce is labeled a "stand up" guy and I try believe he is, but I really wish he would "stand up" and form an alliance against the cheating SOB's in the game.

Remember when Knight publicly called out Eddie Sutton? It was awesome, but it needs done more. For the life of me, I don't know why people with influence just sit back and take it. Actually, I do know. It's putting the paycheck ahead of the integrity of the profession.

Obviously, it's not Bruce's fault, but I'm sick of the attitude justifying an 11 win season because he's clean and that's what we have to settle for. Where are the A.D's and coaches who could speak out? It's damn near as pathetic as career politicians just doing the "partisan" thing even though they may not personally believe in it.

As a fan, it's a sickening thing, the NCAA.
Last edited by wild@nite on May 1st, 2020, 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hilltopwildcat (May 7th, 2020, 10:55 pm)

tmcats
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Post by tmcats » May 1st, 2020, 10:29 am

your points are well taken here. but this happens in all walks of life, sadly. look at politics today. people will not stand up for what is right but rather default to party talking points.

and i've heard weber do that time after time when he said things like: well, i was surprised. what the hell, bruce, no you weren't. you live in the cesspool.
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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Post by wild@nite » May 1st, 2020, 10:35 am

tmcats wrote:
May 1st, 2020, 10:29 am
your points are well taken here. but this happens in all walks of life, sadly. look at politics today. people will not stand up for what is right but rather default to party talking points.

and i've heard weber do that time after time when he said things like: well, i was surprised. what the hell, bruce, no you weren't. you live in the cesspool.
Yep. Funny, I just added the "politics" part to my post right before I read yours. That says it all. If Bruce and the "clean" coaches are willing to stay quiet and play the game, then people, don't gripe when we are sick of seeing seasons like this past season.

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Post by csteel25 » May 1st, 2020, 10:55 am

Puffdad wrote:
April 30th, 2020, 10:47 pm
csteel25 wrote:
April 30th, 2020, 1:52 pm
One potential flaw in the "every three years we will be good" theory is the ground has shifted with transfers. So that will make it tougher.
The contributing players will stay unless a program has some seriously bad issues. The ones who aren’t playing much will seek greener pastures.
So far. But pro leagues and amateur are looking increasingly similar. And in pro leagues, teams come together now to "win championships" ala Miami Heat, Lakers etc.

So a middling K-State program may see a very good player consider transferring to a championship-caliber team for a shot at the title.

Hope not, but would not surprise me.

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