Way too early Big 12 power rankings

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
xtrawildcat
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Re: Way too early Big 12 power rankings

Post by xtrawildcat » April 28th, 2020, 7:25 pm

Just my opinion but two years ago, Jan 2018 we had started 1 and 2 in the Big 12. Most posters on this forum were calling for Weber to be replaced. That season ended with an elite 8 run. The next year a Big 12 championship. I normally look at the positive side of things and in Jan 2018 even I favored replacing him if he didn't turn things around in the next month and a half.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3868&hilit=weber+move+on

So if he performs next year, most posters will support him. If he has another bad losing season with very few positive signs, most won't.

Even those who support Weber when times are good, will lose their confidence in him when we lose. Nothing is going to change that. If he has a good year next year, everybody will be back on the wagon. If he doesn't it will be pretty empty.
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Post by gdgjr78 » April 28th, 2020, 7:34 pm

tmcats wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 9:32 am
weber won a championship with youngsters that failed frank. that's a simple fact. actually, many of those youngsters were going to bolt had he stayed.

yet the same ole cult here and more so elsewhere keep banging their drum that somehow the first one did not count even though it had been literally decades since k-state had won a b12 championship. ole cranky frankie couldn't sniff one with the b12 poy or his sports illustrated cover-boy.

then came weber's second championship. begrudging silence. yet now after a single horrid season, the same ole boys aren't going to let it go and i suppose they won't until weber retires a decade from now with a couple more banners in the rafters.
I suspect at the end of next year Weber could be 10 games UNDER .500 in conference play after 9 years. To accomplish that while winning 14 games in 2 seasons is a remarkable accomplishment. Weber won big with Selfs and Martin's players but his inability to recruit and develop talent is why Illinois fired him. He managed to get 3 amazing 4 year players that saved his bacon but now he must produce. Next year this team better show some signs of improvement and stay intact, then start winning games the year after and get to the NCAA tourney. On a side note no more resets allowed, tired of KSU having to totally rebuild the basketball team. Develop some consistency, thats the mark of a great coach.
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Post by Hypeman » April 28th, 2020, 7:48 pm

gdgjr78 wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 7:34 pm
tmcats wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 9:32 am
weber won a championship with youngsters that failed frank. that's a simple fact. actually, many of those youngsters were going to bolt had he stayed.

yet the same ole cult here and more so elsewhere keep banging their drum that somehow the first one did not count even though it had been literally decades since k-state had won a b12 championship. ole cranky frankie couldn't sniff one with the b12 poy or his sports illustrated cover-boy.

then came weber's second championship. begrudging silence. yet now after a single horrid season, the same ole boys aren't going to let it go and i suppose they won't until weber retires a decade from now with a couple more banners in the rafters.
I suspect at the end of next year Weber could be 10 games UNDER .500 in conference play after 9 years. To accomplish that while winning 14 games in 2 seasons is a remarkable accomplishment. Weber won big with Selfs and Martin's players but his inability to recruit and develop talent is why Illinois fired him. He managed to get 3 amazing 4 year players that saved his bacon but now he must produce. Next year this team better show some signs of improvement and stay intact, then start winning games the year after and get to the NCAA tourney. On a side note no more resets allowed, tired of KSU having to totally rebuild the basketball team. Develop some consistency, thats the mark of a great coach.
Actually, didn’t Weber win multiple big 10 titles? I think he’ might be their all time winningest coach.

That said, he’s definitely been up and down with the recruiting at KSU, but competing for the league title about every 4th year is about as good as anyone has ever done here from that perspective. But he’s had as many crappy seasons as good ones.

Illinois has been pretty terrible since he left. I’m concerned our fate will be the same if he leaves KSU.

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Post by gdgjr78 » April 28th, 2020, 8:36 pm

Hypeman wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 7:48 pm
gdgjr78 wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 7:34 pm


I suspect at the end of next year Weber could be 10 games UNDER .500 in conference play after 9 years. To accomplish that while winning 14 games in 2 seasons is a remarkable accomplishment. Weber won big with Selfs and Martin's players but his inability to recruit and develop talent is why Illinois fired him. He managed to get 3 amazing 4 year players that saved his bacon but now he must produce. Next year this team better show some signs of improvement and stay intact, then start winning games the year after and get to the NCAA tourney. On a side note no more resets allowed, tired of KSU having to totally rebuild the basketball team. Develop some consistency, thats the mark of a great coach.
Actually, didn’t Weber win multiple big 10 titles? I think he’ might be their all time winningest coach.

That said, he’s definitely been up and down with the recruiting at KSU, but competing for the league title about every 4th year is about as good as anyone has ever done here from that perspective. But he’s had as many crappy seasons as good ones.

Illinois has been pretty terrible since he left. I’m concerned our fate will be the same if he leaves KSU.
His first two seasons at Illinois he won league titles. Whats killing him at KSU is inabilty to recruit well consistently and keep the talent he does recruit. Just don't have these horrible seasons in between the good ones. For the love of God please just some consistency 🙏
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Post by wild@nite » April 29th, 2020, 2:34 am

Hypeman wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 7:48 pm
gdgjr78 wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 7:34 pm


I suspect at the end of next year Weber could be 10 games UNDER .500 in conference play after 9 years. To accomplish that while winning 14 games in 2 seasons is a remarkable accomplishment. Weber won big with Selfs and Martin's players but his inability to recruit and develop talent is why Illinois fired him. He managed to get 3 amazing 4 year players that saved his bacon but now he must produce. Next year this team better show some signs of improvement and stay intact, then start winning games the year after and get to the NCAA tourney. On a side note no more resets allowed, tired of KSU having to totally rebuild the basketball team. Develop some consistency, thats the mark of a great coach.
Actually, didn’t Weber win multiple big 10 titles? I think he’ might be their all time winningest coach.

That said, he’s definitely been up and down with the recruiting at KSU, but competing for the league title about every 4th year is about as good as anyone has ever done here from that perspective. But he’s had as many crappy seasons as good ones.

Illinois has been pretty terrible since he left. I’m concerned our fate will be the same if he leaves KSU.
Lou Henson is their winniest coach. Bruce coached at Illinois for 9 years. The reason people question Bruce is that his conference record after year 2-3 years (Self recruits gone), was not very good. Same as here. That is fact. Now, having said that, he followed two less than honest coaches as we're finding out. Bruce is honest and does it the right way. That is worth a lot. I, for one, have been hard on him at times, but I do appreciate his ethical approach to leading our program, and with this incoming class, imo, he should get at least two more years.

If this class is what I think it might be, he will retire here.

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Post by xtrawildcat » April 29th, 2020, 10:30 am

Regarding recruiting.
1. Team blew up Fosters sophomore year and had to be rebuilt. Lots of playing time to sell and just two years removed from a Big 12 championship.
2. Less playing time to sell over the next three years and results with Stokes, Brown and Wade did not show really great promist til Feb. 2018. Hard to recruit when roster has experienced players and fans are calling for the head coach to resign. (IE The thread I posted from 2018}
3. Signed a good class in 2019 with playing time being available and coming off and elite 8.
4. This year we again had playing time to sell and coming off an elite 8 and a Big 12 championship.

Biggest thing I notice this year is that top 150 recruits and others are welcoming an offer from Kansas State. IE Pack, Miguel, Lewis, Rudi, Kabsuke.
We are now perceived as a really good program. Now we need some results next year to continue that perception.
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tmcats (April 29th, 2020, 10:31 am) • hilltopwildcat (May 7th, 2020, 10:48 pm)

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Post by epicsnyder » April 29th, 2020, 3:03 pm

gdgjr78 wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 7:34 pm
tmcats wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 9:32 am
weber won a championship with youngsters that failed frank. that's a simple fact. actually, many of those youngsters were going to bolt had he stayed.

yet the same ole cult here and more so elsewhere keep banging their drum that somehow the first one did not count even though it had been literally decades since k-state had won a b12 championship. ole cranky frankie couldn't sniff one with the b12 poy or his sports illustrated cover-boy.

then came weber's second championship. begrudging silence. yet now after a single horrid season, the same ole boys aren't going to let it go and i suppose they won't until weber retires a decade from now with a couple more banners in the rafters.
I suspect at the end of next year Weber could be 10 games UNDER .500 in conference play after 9 years. To accomplish that while winning 14 games in 2 seasons is a remarkable accomplishment. Weber won big with Selfs and Martin's players but his inability to recruit and develop talent is why Illinois fired him. He managed to get 3 amazing 4 year players that saved his bacon but now he must produce. Next year this team better show some signs of improvement and stay intact, then start winning games the year after and get to the NCAA tourney. On a side note no more resets allowed, tired of KSU having to totally rebuild the basketball team. Develop some consistency, thats the mark of a great coach.
THIS is not the end of that scenario. There are almost a thousand players in the "portal". We aren't the only mid-tier team that is rebuilding. It's becoming the norm now. It's destroying the game as we have known it. Other than the big boys, all other teams are just going to become the farm system for the blue bloods, or kids will jump ship to get minutes somewhere else. All the while delusional as they ALL think they are going to ball for money in the future. It's shining a very bright spotlight on the growing number of kids that have no business being in college in the first place as they have ZERO desire to get an education.

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Post by tmcats » April 29th, 2020, 3:18 pm

jumping from k-state to v'tech is hardly a leap to the blue blood.
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gdgjr78 (April 29th, 2020, 10:58 pm)
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Post by xtrawildcat » April 29th, 2020, 6:27 pm

epicsnyder wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 3:03 pm
gdgjr78 wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 7:34 pm


I suspect at the end of next year Weber could be 10 games UNDER .500 in conference play after 9 years. To accomplish that while winning 14 games in 2 seasons is a remarkable accomplishment. Weber won big with Selfs and Martin's players but his inability to recruit and develop talent is why Illinois fired him. He managed to get 3 amazing 4 year players that saved his bacon but now he must produce. Next year this team better show some signs of improvement and stay intact, then start winning games the year after and get to the NCAA tourney. On a side note no more resets allowed, tired of KSU having to totally rebuild the basketball team. Develop some consistency, thats the mark of a great coach.
THIS is not the end of that scenario. There are almost a thousand players in the "portal". We aren't the only mid-tier team that is rebuilding. It's becoming the norm now. It's destroying the game as we have known it. Other than the big boys, all other teams are just going to become the farm system for the blue bloods, or kids will jump ship to get minutes somewhere else. All the while delusional as they ALL think they are going to ball for money in the future. It's shining a very bright spotlight on the growing number of kids that have no business being in college in the first place as they have ZERO desire to get an education.
I don't see transfers destroying the game as we know it. Still have scholarship players at Kansas State to root for.

Which player that transferred from Kansas State this year won't get a degree.
1. Diarra - already has one.
2. Love - I expect he will.
3. Shadd - I expect he will.
4, Levi - I would be surprise dif he doesn't.
5, Sloan - I don't know but he got a summer session and two semesters at Kansas State..
6. SNW - Who knows but he has every chance if he wants one indlucing at least one semester as a red shirt at his new school.

Just because a player doesn't get a degree from the school he started at doesn't mean he won't get a degree. For transfers that have to sit out a year, they have more opportunity to get a degree. IE Kaosi.

My sister went to KSU for two years and got a degree from another school. One of my room mates at KSU started at Hays but finished at KSU. Still got a degree.

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Post by gdgjr78 » April 29th, 2020, 11:14 pm

epicsnyder wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 3:03 pm
gdgjr78 wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 7:34 pm


I suspect at the end of next year Weber could be 10 games UNDER .500 in conference play after 9 years. To accomplish that while winning 14 games in 2 seasons is a remarkable accomplishment. Weber won big with Selfs and Martin's players but his inability to recruit and develop talent is why Illinois fired him. He managed to get 3 amazing 4 year players that saved his bacon but now he must produce. Next year this team better show some signs of improvement and stay intact, then start winning games the year after and get to the NCAA tourney. On a side note no more resets allowed, tired of KSU having to totally rebuild the basketball team. Develop some consistency, thats the mark of a great coach.
THIS is not the end of that scenario. There are almost a thousand players in the "portal". We aren't the only mid-tier team that is rebuilding. It's becoming the norm now. It's destroying the game as we have known it. Other than the big boys, all other teams are just going to become the farm system for the blue bloods, or kids will jump ship to get minutes somewhere else. All the while delusional as they ALL think they are going to ball for money in the future. It's shining a very bright spotlight on the growing number of kids that have no business being in college in the first place as they have ZERO desire to get an education.
The vast majority of our transfers shouldn't have been offered scholarships at a power 5 school. They left because they weren't talented enough to play. Don't blame them blame the coaching staff that extended scholarships to them. It's time for this staff to take responsibility for the programs total and complete lack of consistency.
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