Way too early Big 12 power rankings

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
pulitzerdave
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Re: Way too early Big 12 power rankings

Post by pulitzerdave » April 27th, 2020, 4:32 pm

I can't believe that some fans are talking about firing a guy in the third year after a conference championship. Weber has earned some capital with two Big 12 championships and an Elite 8 appearance. Two bad years (yes, they could both be really bad) does not spend that capital. String together five of those, and he has a problem. And by that time, he may be ready to resign or retire. So Weber for at least three more years as KSU men's basketball coach is a near certainty.
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tmcats (April 27th, 2020, 5:14 pm)

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Post by Hypeman » April 27th, 2020, 6:22 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
April 26th, 2020, 10:22 am
Bruce Weber's job is not at risk after next year. In fact, Bruce Weber will retire as KSU coach on his terms. Why? Because he's the only coach in the conference besides Bill Self to win more than one Big 12 Championship. Don't underestimate the value of that. Also, he has shown that he can rebuild a program after down years. Also, because his recruiting has gotten better after a few disastrous years. Also because there is not a replacement that can come to Kansas State and better the success that he's had. If you think you know of one, and can give me reasons why he would be better than Bruce Weber, then name him.

Weber is a coach who preaches defense. That is the ONLY kind of coach that can unseat Kansas once in a while. And as long as Dollar Bill Self is at KU, "once in a while" is the reality in the Big 12.
For the record, I said people will want his head. I didn’t say I did. As already discussed, their are rabid Weber haters (aka need to be rights) that are still upset he was hired and hope for failure and an opportunity to say I told you so.

BW is a good coach, but I suspect his management of the roster isn’t always the best and may have us at the bottom again next year and we might have some people screaming for a firing.

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Post by gdgjr78 » April 27th, 2020, 8:26 pm

As I said before this board is full of posters that adore Weber, at least the ones that post the majority of the time. The fact of the matter is his regime can be defined in two words, hugely inconsistent. I suspect after next year he will be a number of games under .500 in conference play after 9 years and if you take away his first year its even worse. Yes he won with that team but he did not recruit that talent and he did not develop it. He is not above criticism and fans have that right to express it. Here come the regulars to beat their chests and profess his holiness...(tmcats, learnin, Dave, dad, etc.)
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Post by katlander » April 27th, 2020, 11:12 pm

Bruce has had his share of troubles. Both while here and before he arrived. When Dean, Barry and Kam arrived Bruce's future largely was to be determined by them. They had a good run. The same is true of the current class after another meltdown. I think he will get the chance to see these guys through unless there is another implosion. This class, and to some extent, last years class and next years class will tell the tale. By the time they graduate around 2024 Bruce will be getting close to 70. That will likely be a decision point.

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Post by tmcats » April 28th, 2020, 9:32 am

weber won a championship with youngsters that failed frank. that's a simple fact. actually, many of those youngsters were going to bolt had he stayed.

yet the same ole cult here and more so elsewhere keep banging their drum that somehow the first one did not count even though it had been literally decades since k-state had won a b12 championship. ole cranky frankie couldn't sniff one with the b12 poy or his sports illustrated cover-boy.

then came weber's second championship. begrudging silence. yet now after a single horrid season, the same ole boys aren't going to let it go and i suppose they won't until weber retires a decade from now with a couple more banners in the rafters.
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Kralicek (April 28th, 2020, 11:05 am) • pulitzerdave (April 28th, 2020, 9:21 pm)
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Post by bhoovy » April 28th, 2020, 9:56 am

I don’t think Bruce is currently under any pressure other than what he puts on himself. But should there be another last place finish there will be grumblings, it’s just the nature. I would certainly believe he’ll get both this year and next, but a trifecta at the bottom is hard for any fan base to live with, regardless of the number of conference championships. But I don’t expect to see 3 years in a row at the bottom either.

I look to have an optimistic outlook going into each season. So much so I even count us in as potential champs until proven otherwise. But there’s generally solid pieces from the previous year that helps lend to that optimism. I think the frosh from last year show some great potential and the incoming class appears very good on paper, but a lot of unprovens. And with the virus situation I think it prevented the basketball team from a Europe trip this summer that would have really helped jump start a new team with getting more acclimated to they system and just start getting comfortable playing with each other.

But I really do like what they’ve done with the schedule and think it can really help a new and young team grow without demoralizing by being to tough or giving false confidence by being too soft.

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Post by pulitzerdave » April 28th, 2020, 9:57 am

Weber coached the hell out of that first group that won a Big 12 championship, just like he coached the hell out of the group that Self left him at Illinois. Yet he gets very little credit for that because people like to put caveats on these things to suit their own biases.

Weber is not a king. Weber is not the holy father. Weber does not have a cult like Frank Martin did. He's just a guy who tries hard, does things the right way and stays loyal to his beliefs. He has good seasons, and he has bad seasons. He has good recruiting classes and he has bad recruiting classes. He's not perfect, but neither is the school he represents as it stands as a basketball program.

If there are those who expect him to finish in the top half of the conference standings every year ... well, that's not going to happen at Kansas State regardless of who the coach is. I'm willing to "suffer" through the lean years to get to the really fine years. And how many of those really fine seasons did we have in the previous 35 years before Weber? Not that many. If I sat around and lamented every bad season and every bad game, and every bad recruiting class at my alma mater, then I'd drive myself bat-shit crazy.

I like to win. Who doesn't? But I also know how hard it is to do that in a conference where the dominate team cheats all the time, and others are starting to follow that model. I'll take a couple of conference championship once in a while, and a competitive team most of the time and hold my head high. We don't need a new coach, we need a new attitude.
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Post by IStillLikeHarv » April 28th, 2020, 11:48 am

The article is ridiculous as far as KSU because it is riddled with errors. Really a poor job by the author as far as research.

As far as the projection itself, who knows. It might turn out to be accurate, or it could be off substantially. Certainly the analysis in the article is worthless per se. For me the bigger questions are will there be a college basketball season and if so what will it be like. Right this moment a "normal" season appears pretty unlikely, but there is still quite a bit of time. A Covid-19 resurgence in the fall, which many are predicting, would probably wipe out any hope of a season. Only time will tell.
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Post by wild@nite » April 28th, 2020, 1:50 pm

I couldn't care less what Fitz thinks. The guy is a tool. Having said that, I couldn't care less what John Currie is doing these days either.

My take on next year. 7th or 8th place, with a 3rd or 4th place finish and NCAA tourney berth in 2022. 2023 will be our next shot at competing for a conference title, imo.

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Post by Hypeman » April 28th, 2020, 6:46 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
April 28th, 2020, 9:57 am
Weber coached the hell out of that first group that won a Big 12 championship, just like he coached the hell out of the group that Self left him at Illinois. Yet he gets very little credit for that because people like to put caveats on these things to suit their own biases.

Weber is not a king. Weber is not the holy father. Weber does not have a cult like Frank Martin did. He's just a guy who tries hard, does things the right way and stays loyal to his beliefs. He has good seasons, and he has bad seasons. He has good recruiting classes and he has bad recruiting classes. He's not perfect, but neither is the school he represents as it stands as a basketball program.

If there are those who expect him to finish in the top half of the conference standings every year ... well, that's not going to happen at Kansas State regardless of who the coach is. I'm willing to "suffer" through the lean years to get to the really fine years. And how many of those really fine seasons did we have in the previous 35 years before Weber? Not that many. If I sat around and lamented every bad season and every bad game, and every bad recruiting class at my alma mater, then I'd drive myself bat-shit crazy.

I like to win. Who doesn't? But I also know how hard it is to do that in a conference where the dominate team cheats all the time, and others are starting to follow that model. I'll take a couple of conference championship once in a while, and a competitive team most of the time and hold my head high. We don't need a new coach, we need a new attitude.
I pretty much agree with all this pman. But I suspect the Weber haters will be out in full force this season.

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