So long Cartier

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
katlander
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Re: So long Cartier

Post by katlander » March 26th, 2020, 10:42 am

Maybe Coach Weber is too nice. I know people like this. Great people in many ways. But just not a mean bone in their body. They always try to work things out without conflict. Some people require a stronger hand. Now Lowry seems to have no problems in that area. But he's not the head coach. Maybe he could provide some insight to what was happening with Carti.

I think most players see Coach Weber as a really nice guy and really like him. But occasionally you get a guy who doesn't or has issues then we have problems. I think its best to have a heart to heart and cut bait. Every Coach has his own style. With Coach Weber these guys are dealt with in a more patient manner where most Coaches would read them the riot act and they would be gone early.
Last edited by katlander on March 26th, 2020, 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hypeman
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Post by Hypeman » March 26th, 2020, 10:49 am

tmcats wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 5:52 pm
not really surprising, i guess, but disappointing if he goes to college and plays elsewhere. right now, don't care anymore. good luck, carti. you gave us some thrills and chills and head-shakes too. a really fine player but, sadly, never the lead horse. :|
That’a a change of tune, TM? You seem to know the inside dirt, what’s the behind the scenes story?

wild@nite
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Post by wild@nite » March 26th, 2020, 11:13 am

learnin wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:21 am
gdgjr78 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 10:55 pm
To me this is a another example of Weber being incapable of controlling and commanding respect from a roster. The first big 12 championship he won was with a roster built by someone else and with leaders that kept their fellow teammates in line. His second big 12 championship was due to 3 seniors that had the complete and total respect of the younger guys. Weber has shown an inability to command respect and authority from a young team with mercurial talents. Can you imagine Barry, Dean, or Kam reaction to the showboating failed dunks this year? What about the demonstrations of disrespect towards Weber multiple times at TOs this year? If the leaders of his teams are capable of keeping the roster focused and on task he is capable of success but it appears he is incapable of doing that on his own.
You make some valid points. I don't believe Coach Weber excels at handling discontents and this is probably his But, to be fair, how many coaches handle discontent well? It seems as if Marshall is having problems. A coach came out a week ago, forget his name, talking about how he gets tired of handling all the players who pout about not getting enough playing time.
To me, it's very simple. You sit them down. You don't reward the behavior with minutes. I, myself have had multiple parental meetings over my coaching career because of this. If priorities are straight, you set expectations and you show your team that EVERYONE is expected to follow them. Ive never understood coaches who try to juggle attitudes. It never works. It's detrimental to the team and makes you disrespected amongst the other players. They see when the coach is weak. Playing pouter's is weak. Coaches have to have a string will to do the right thing. They don't have to be asses about it, but firmly manage attitudes with a strong message of bench minutes. Those who don't do this, and try to juggle attitudes, imo, deserve the issues they endure. Then they wanna complain. Look in the mirror!

kswildcat
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Post by kswildcat » March 26th, 2020, 11:20 am

As many have said, it was time for Carti to move on. Attitude got in the way of his talent. That is not my type of player and I don't believe Coach Weber's type either. Our coaching staff now has the opportunity to build a totally new team. It will be fun to watch the young guys develop. There will be plenty of stumbles along the way but the end result should be worth the struggles.

katlander
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Post by katlander » March 26th, 2020, 11:36 am

To me, it's very simple. You sit them down. You don't reward the behavior with minutes. I, myself have had multiple parental meetings over my coaching career because of this. If priorities are straight, you set expectations and you show your team that EVERYONE is expected to follow them. Ive never understood coaches who try to juggle attitudes. It never works. It's detrimental to the team and makes you disrespected amongst the other players. They see when the coach is weak. Playing pouter's is weak. Coaches have to have a string will to do the right thing. They don't have to be asses about it, but firmly manage attitudes with a strong message of bench minutes. Those who don't do this, and try to juggle attitudes, imo, deserve the issues they endure. Then they wanna complain. Look in the mirror!

Very good post and very well said. I think you are spot on. You have to have clear expectations and make all follow suit for the good of the whole.

pulitzerdave
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Post by pulitzerdave » March 26th, 2020, 11:58 am

KsJoey wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:43 am
pulitzerdave wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 8:02 pm


I disagree. By the end of next season, we'll be a better team without him.

If losing Carti will cost us 3-5 wins next season, then what is your prediction for wins? Many on this board think we'll be worse next year. If that's true, then our potential isn't even 11 wins. Then you have to subtract the 3-5 you predict Carti's loss will cost us. That means we'll win between 6-8 games next year at best. Is that your call?
lol, I didn't say 6-8, you are. 3-5 games is just a prediction. Obviously pretty hard for anybody to know what to expect next year with wins/losses with such a large amount of newcomers that have yet to play a college game. I think anywhere from 8-13 wins next year will be a reasonable prediction IMO, with or without Cartier. Though the probability of more wins would be higher with Cartier. He was the best offensive weapon returning on a team that is very limited in that area(for returners).
So, what about this prediction. With Cartier, next year's team wins 10 games or less. Without him, they win 13-15 games. That's taking into account the number of games, 3-5, that he helped piss away this season with his sloppy play at the end of games.

Who had the ball at the end of games last season ... uh, I think it was Cartier. How many of those close games did we win? Uh, not very many. But yet you believe that having Cartier on the team next season guarantees 3-5 more wins. That's not very logical. Cartier's 3-point percentage dropped to 30.5 last season. A .6 % drop from the year before, and a whole 1.0 from the year before that. His turnovers nearly doubled. His free throw percentage was an abysmal 66%. How many of those misses came on the front end of 1 and 1's at the end of games? More than enough to make a difference.

I'm looking forward to a fresh start without Cartier Diarra. Now, if you're talking about the Cartier Diarra of 2-3 years ago, I'd say we could use his contributions. But that guy left last season ... in plain sight.

kswildcat
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Post by kswildcat » March 26th, 2020, 11:59 am

"For the good of the whole"!! Has team before self become an outdated concept in today's world? I sure hope not but much of what I see is self before team.

pulitzerdave
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Post by pulitzerdave » March 26th, 2020, 12:08 pm

My guess. Weber is glad Cartier is moving on, but obviously won't say that publicly. I think next year's team will energize him. Don't be surprised if they're better than expected.
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learnin (March 26th, 2020, 1:43 pm) • stlcatfan (March 26th, 2020, 8:28 pm) • hilltopwildcat (March 26th, 2020, 9:51 pm)

kswildcat
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Post by kswildcat » March 26th, 2020, 12:12 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 12:08 pm
My guess. Weber is glad Cartier is moving on, but obviously won't say that publicly. I think next year's team will energize him. Don't be surprised if they're better than expected.
:agree:

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Post by bhoovy » March 26th, 2020, 12:21 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 12:08 pm
My guess. Weber is glad Cartier is moving on, but obviously won't say that publicly. I think next year's team will energize him. Don't be surprised if they're better than expected.
Glad or not, don’t you believe it appears coach was expecting it? We’ve still been recruiting with no open scholarships. You have to believe someone is leaving and you’ll need to fill that spot, otherwise if you’re not expecting him to leave what do you tell Williams or Ellis or whoever when they call and say “I want to be a wildcat”?
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