So long Cartier

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learnin
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Re: So long Cartier

Post by learnin » March 25th, 2020, 10:45 pm

xtrawildcat wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 6:15 pm
learnin wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 3:46 pm


No doubt Cartier’s windmill gave kstateters, and fans, a thrill of a lifetime
Learnin, I'm sorry if I find this humorous. IE, did his missed windmill this year give kstaters and fans a thrill of a lifetime or opportunity to point out how stupid that attempt was. One was a thrill, one was a disaster.

IMO, Both attempts were mistakes. One worked out and one didn't.
Actually, I think it proves my theory about the force. Isn’t it funny how it worked when things were going right last year and, when nothing was going right this year, it failed? Think about it for 10 seconds. Think about how many close games were won the year before and how many close ones were lost this year.

Now. Both were mistakes except the KU windmill was not as reckless as the one this year, obviously.

Secondly, I’ll mention a factor that will probably bring me some ridicule but I’m as serious as a heart attack. I happen to believe that the windmill dunk, against KU and the deafening roar of the crowd after that dunk,
did more than any one thing to bring in this great recruiting class of 2020. I’d almost be willing to bet my house that the windmill sealed the deal with Pack and Kasubke. So, in the big scheme of things, that windmill dunk may pay dividends for years to come

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Post by gdgjr78 » March 25th, 2020, 10:55 pm

To me this is another example of Weber being incapable of controlling and commanding respect from a roster. The first big 12 championship he won was with a roster built by someone else and with leaders that kept their fellow teammates in line. His second big 12 championship was due to 3 seniors that had the complete and total respect of the younger guys. Weber has shown an inability to command respect and authority from a young team with mercurial talents. Can you imagine Barry, Dean, or Kam reaction to the showboating failed dunks this year? What about the demonstrations of disrespect towards Weber multiple times at TOs this year? If the leaders of his teams are capable of keeping the roster focused and on task he is capable of success but it appears he is incapable of doing that on his own.
Last edited by gdgjr78 on March 26th, 2020, 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by katlander » March 25th, 2020, 11:34 pm

Good post Purplespec. I am not sure what to think about Cartier. But my purple heart is glad he is gone. I just personally didn't care for his attitude and his antics. He seemed angry and disrespectful. Weber is the one who gave him a chance. My intuition tells me there was some kind of fundamental change with Cartier. Personality issues, head issues, a fallout with a coach or someone on the team. Substance? I really don't know but something was off and I am really curious as to what it was. Regardless I think we are better off without him and expect a much better team chemistry next year. A very important thing.
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stlcatfan (March 26th, 2020, 7:30 am)

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Post by katlander » March 25th, 2020, 11:50 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 8:02 pm
KsJoey wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 4:54 pm
It’s was somewhat expected but still disappointing. Losing Carti will cost us 3-5 wins imo. No way it makes us a better team next year.
I disagree. By the end of next season, we'll be a better team without him.

If losing Carti will cost us 3-5 wins next season, then what is your prediction for wins? Many on this board think we'll be worse next year. If that's true, then our potential isn't even 11 wins. Then you have to subtract the 3-5 you predict Carti's loss will cost us. That means we'll win between 6-8 games next year at best. Is that your call?
I tend to agree with you pdave. I think it may cost us wins early but gain us wins as the year goes on. Chances are it gains us even more wins the following year as our young players will improve more quickly in a good cooperative learning environment. Like him or not he had become a cancer. I also think the success of next years team is largely contingent on point guard play. If Nigel Pack is as good as I think he may be, and is good right out of the gate, he will make the team and everyone on it better. I am excited about next year, but am tempering my excitement with realism. The NIT would be a very good year.

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Post by pulitzerdave » March 26th, 2020, 1:58 am

Please tell me how we're going to miss Cartier next season. Make your case. Is it because he's a team leader? Nope. Is it because you can trust him with the basketball at the end of a game? Nope. Is it because he inspires underclassmen to be at their best? Nope. Is it because we'll miss his 13 points per game? We've got guys coming in who can make that up. Do you really believe that Cartier would have been a different player next season than he was this season? I think he would have been worse. I think his presence would have retarded the growth of next year's team. I'm glad he's leaving, and I wish him the best. But he had played out his hand at KSU, and by moving on, he did himself, and the team a big favor.
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Post by bigpurpleman » March 26th, 2020, 7:57 am

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Post by learnin » March 26th, 2020, 8:21 am

gdgjr78 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 10:55 pm
To me this is a another example of Weber being incapable of controlling and commanding respect from a roster. The first big 12 championship he won was with a roster built by someone else and with leaders that kept their fellow teammates in line. His second big 12 championship was due to 3 seniors that had the complete and total respect of the younger guys. Weber has shown an inability to command respect and authority from a young team with mercurial talents. Can you imagine Barry, Dean, or Kam reaction to the showboating failed dunks this year? What about the demonstrations of disrespect towards Weber multiple times at TOs this year? If the leaders of his teams are capable of keeping the roster focused and on task he is capable of success but it appears he is incapable of doing that on his own.
You make some valid points. I don't believe Coach Weber excels at handling discontents and this is probably his But, to be fair, how many coaches handle discontent well? It seems as if Marshall is having problems. A coach came out a week ago, forget his name, talking about how he gets tired of handling all the players who pout about not getting enough playing time.

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Post by KsJoey » March 26th, 2020, 8:43 am

pulitzerdave wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 8:02 pm
KsJoey wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 4:54 pm
It’s was somewhat expected but still disappointing. Losing Carti will cost us 3-5 wins imo. No way it makes us a better team next year.
I disagree. By the end of next season, we'll be a better team without him.

If losing Carti will cost us 3-5 wins next season, then what is your prediction for wins? Many on this board think we'll be worse next year. If that's true, then our potential isn't even 11 wins. Then you have to subtract the 3-5 you predict Carti's loss will cost us. That means we'll win between 6-8 games next year at best. Is that your call?
lol, I didn't say 6-8, you are. 3-5 games is just a prediction. Obviously pretty hard for anybody to know what to expect next year with wins/losses with such a large amount of newcomers that have yet to play a college game. I think anywhere from 8-13 wins next year will be a reasonable prediction IMO, with or without Cartier. Though the probability of more wins would be higher with Cartier. He was the best offensive weapon returning on a team that is very limited in that area(for returners).

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Post by Gorhoops » March 26th, 2020, 8:46 am

learnin wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:21 am
gdgjr78 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 10:55 pm
To me this is a another example of Weber being incapable of controlling and commanding respect from a roster. The first big 12 championship he won was with a roster built by someone else and with leaders that kept their fellow teammates in line. His second big 12 championship was due to 3 seniors that had the complete and total respect of the younger guys. Weber has shown an inability to command respect and authority from a young team with mercurial talents. Can you imagine Barry, Dean, or Kam reaction to the showboating failed dunks this year? What about the demonstrations of disrespect towards Weber multiple times at TOs this year? If the leaders of his teams are capable of keeping the roster focused and on task he is capable of success but it appears he is incapable of doing that on his own.
You make some valid points. I don't believe Coach Weber excels at handling discontents and this is probably his But, to be fair, how many coaches handle discontent well? It seems as if Marshall is having problems. A coach came out a week ago, forget his name, talking about how he gets tired of handling all the players who pout about not getting enough playing time.


Yeah, I don't know about the whole "can't handle discontents" deal. The problem with this team from the beginning, and I think gdgjr78 mentioned it all year long if I recall, was a pure lack of talent and especially the inability to shoot the ball. When you are getting your butt kicked all the time because your best players can't shoot, frustration sets in, that happens to every coach.

But Carti is the only main contributor leaving, and he would quite potentially have left no matter what as he has been here 4 years and is probably just ready to move, especially with degree in hand.

The fact that all of the freshman, at least at this point, are coming back tells me something.

I look more at whether they kept fighting or if they folded the tents. This team kept fighting and kept fighting and kept fighting to the end, to the point of winning the last two games, and being upset the tourney in KC was cancelled because they truly thought they had a shot.

So I ask, Does that sound like a group that was disliked the coach?? It didn't look like it to me. Sure, frustrated, they were all frustrated because they were working their butts off and coming up short, often times in games they could have won. That brings out frustration. But teams that are hating on the coach quit and fold the tents, this team did not do that. They just couldn't shoot/weren't good on offense. I will buy bashing Weber for recruiting failures or pour offense, not this with this team.
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Post by tmcats » March 26th, 2020, 10:05 am

gor, that was an excellent post. i so admired how this team stuck together and fought to the end winning those last two. that said so much for weber and the character of his players as well. and ya, learnin', the force did come to play on these guys.

as written, carti earned his degree, was academic all b12, had been here 4 years and is likely going overseas. if not, he may end up at back home at st. johns or maybe at clemson or with frank in his second home, south carolina, although i can't imagine that relationship being effective for either.

carti was fun to watch and cheer for, yes mercurial, at times frustrating, but he didn't quit.
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