So long Cartier
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wild@nite
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stlcatfan
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Agreed. I wish Cartier the best, but I think next year's squad - especially the freshmen and sophomores - will have a much better chemistry between them and with Coach Weber. We will be young, but pretty talented so who knows?
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln
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epicsnyder
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Yeah, that was a laugher for me as wellKsustephens wrote: ↑March 25th, 2020, 7:12 pmHold on ... Hold on...going pro? Like in Japan or something? He was horrible this year. Our studs from two years ago aren’t even on an NBA team are they? These agents put illusions of grandeur in these kids. Plus Coronavirus is going to put a big dent in athletics. I wouldn’t be betting a professional career right now.
In a perfect world, everyone would choose hard work, morals and ethics over obscene money and fame. And everyone outside of Lowrents would be required to be a red blooded, card carrying Payhawk hater.
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Highway26north
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There are PLENTY of venues for guys who want to "turn pro" and Carti is good enough to land one. I agree that his presence on next year's team was going to be odd/awkward/whatever. Time to turn the page.
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pulitzerdave
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I disagree. By the end of next season, we'll be a better team without him.
If losing Carti will cost us 3-5 wins next season, then what is your prediction for wins? Many on this board think we'll be worse next year. If that's true, then our potential isn't even 11 wins. Then you have to subtract the 3-5 you predict Carti's loss will cost us. That means we'll win between 6-8 games next year at best. Is that your call?
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pulitzerdave
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Cartier's value to the team was substantial in his first two seasons. He helped us win games and accomplish some special things. When the leadership role shifted to him this season, he had his worst season IMO. I don't care that some of his stats were better, some were actually much worse, like turnovers and field goal percentage. He became a different player ... a more careless player. If he had stayed, we would have seen more of the same. His 13points per game will be replaceable. His ball handling will be replaceable. His attitude will not be missed. I don't get all of the "oh we'll miss him next season" talk. No we won't. I appreciate his contributions to KSU basketball, especially during his freshman and sophomore seasons, and I was one of his biggest fans. I thought he should have started over Stokes as a sophomore, and said so. But he didn't blend well with this team. The departed seniors made Cartier a better player, because they took pressure off of him, and allowed him to play at HIS level. I wish him the best, but this team will not miss him next season.
Last edited by pulitzerdave on March 25th, 2020, 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Horses_n_Hoops
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Oh without a doubt he can go pro. Not only that, if he goes to Europe (which is probably likely if that’s what he’s willing to do), he’s liable to make more money than Barry Brown is with the Iowa Wolves.Ksustephens wrote: ↑March 25th, 2020, 7:12 pmHold on ... Hold on...going pro? Like in Japan or something? He was horrible this year. Our studs from two years ago aren’t even on an NBA team are they? These agents put illusions of grandeur in these kids. Plus Coronavirus is going to put a big dent in athletics. I wouldn’t be betting a professional career right now.
Barry, who isn’t on a 2 way contract (unlike Dean), makes the typical G-League salary $35,000.
If Diarra decides to go to Europe, on a rookie deal, he could probably make somewhere between 60-100k. Most of those European clubs also provide housing and a car. And if you turn out to be a great top level player, you can totally make a few million a year over there. Really it’s not a bad deal.
I know you think he had a lackluckster season, but guys worse than him play in Europe all the time. 13 ppg and 4 assists out of a Big12 school will definitely land him somewhere.
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xtrawildcat
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Diarra had nearly identical stats to J Ramsey who is listed as a potential first round draft choice.
He cut down his turnover rate in the last 7 or 8 games.
His failing was he couldn't get Sneeds shots to go in or keep Mak from getting stripped.
He cut down his turnover rate in the last 7 or 8 games.
His failing was he couldn't get Sneeds shots to go in or keep Mak from getting stripped.
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Horses_n_Hoops
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Good points here. I don’t know if many people here are NBA fans (originally from NY and a Knicks fan (yes they suck)) but when drafting younger guys you’re looking for raw talent. Ramsey has a huge amount of raw talent and you can see that by watching him/eye test. Diarra might have the same stats, but right now, he’s showing a ceiling (this is obviously all my opinion). That ceiling can be moved, but it takes a lot of work. Ramsey obviously has a lot more upside than Diarra, but any person who can score 13 or 14 ppg and be a serious player on a P5 team is likely to get some kind of professional interest.xtrawildcat wrote: ↑March 25th, 2020, 8:27 pmDiarra had nearly identical stats to J Ramsey who is listed as a potential first round draft choice.
He cut down his turnover rate in the last 7 or 8 games.
His failing was he couldn't get Sneeds shots to go in or keep Mak from getting stripped.
And you’re totally correct about Sneed and Mawien. He’s probably been hurt in the assist category by these two.
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Purplespec
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Cartier is a puzzling character with some amazing assets who I think fell in love with his own athleticism. To some extent I think X has some of the same problems. I say Cartier is puzzling because he is clearly a bright young guy, and, again, so is X. Neither, however, seemed capable of improving their play from what it was two years ago.
My wife and I just watched a replay of the Cats' game against Kentucky in the Sweet 16 game two years ago. Cartier, X, Barry, Mak and Kamau were the starters. Nearly everyone else on the team was with the team this year, except for Wainwright. Dean played 8 minutes. Here are some of the differences I noted in that game from the way the team played in the season just past.
Barry and Kamau, of course, were the primary ball handlers, but Cartier sometimes brought the ball up court. Cartier's dribble was generally low to the floor. He had the ball stolen once that I recall, and it was when he wasn't paying attention to someone behind him. He drove to the basket when the opportunity presented itself on a couple occasions, but he did not, as he often did this year, stand out off the elbows with that high dribble and then try to bull his way to the basket. I don't recall X ever bringing the ball up court as he often insisted on doing this past year.
Among the differences in the Cats v Cats game and this past season were:
As stated above, Barry and Kamau were the primary ball handlers. X had open shots at three-pointers and he nailed four or five of them. He also had a couple drives to the basket when a taller player came out to contest. Barry and Kamau set him up for shots. He did not have to manufacture an open three or to hurry to shoot one. X handled the ball a lot more this past year and he wasn't good at it. He is a terrible passer and a mediocre ball handler, something that was masked by the play of Dean, when he was available, and Barry and Kamau.
Cartier likewise is a crappy passer, nor does he take care of the ball. I think he became enamored with some of the flashy plays he'd made during his first two years. I think he was actually bored with the routines play that is so important in games. In the case of both X and Cartier, I saw occasions during the past year when they did not pass the ball to the freshmen when they were open. I don't think they respected the skills of their teammates.
The reality is that neither Cartier nor X is as good as they think they are. I think Weber liked both of them. I suspect he was incredibly frustrated that both were prone to making lazy and sometimes stupid passes. He kept telling himself that they were good kids who were going to get It right the next time out, and they would reward him with missed dunks at critical times. Some players are just not cut out to be leaders on a team and I think both Cartier and X fit that description. I suspect the poor play caused some resentment among their teammates, but Weber saw them as the alpha dogs and was stuck with them as team leaders.
I think down the road we will see that D Gordon is a leader. I don't think he was the best shooter or best scorer on his team in high school, but he held his team together by doing all of the things a leader does. As freshman with an evolving skill set, he couldn't lead the Cats this year and he deferred to older players, who he couldn't make better because they already thought they were good.
BTW, Mak and Stockard, sad to say, were not factors in the Cats' win over Kentucky. There were very few attempts to take the ball inside and the ones that were made failed. McGuirl had some good moments, especially when Barry set him up for a long three and on some fast breaks.
My wife and I just watched a replay of the Cats' game against Kentucky in the Sweet 16 game two years ago. Cartier, X, Barry, Mak and Kamau were the starters. Nearly everyone else on the team was with the team this year, except for Wainwright. Dean played 8 minutes. Here are some of the differences I noted in that game from the way the team played in the season just past.
Barry and Kamau, of course, were the primary ball handlers, but Cartier sometimes brought the ball up court. Cartier's dribble was generally low to the floor. He had the ball stolen once that I recall, and it was when he wasn't paying attention to someone behind him. He drove to the basket when the opportunity presented itself on a couple occasions, but he did not, as he often did this year, stand out off the elbows with that high dribble and then try to bull his way to the basket. I don't recall X ever bringing the ball up court as he often insisted on doing this past year.
Among the differences in the Cats v Cats game and this past season were:
As stated above, Barry and Kamau were the primary ball handlers. X had open shots at three-pointers and he nailed four or five of them. He also had a couple drives to the basket when a taller player came out to contest. Barry and Kamau set him up for shots. He did not have to manufacture an open three or to hurry to shoot one. X handled the ball a lot more this past year and he wasn't good at it. He is a terrible passer and a mediocre ball handler, something that was masked by the play of Dean, when he was available, and Barry and Kamau.
Cartier likewise is a crappy passer, nor does he take care of the ball. I think he became enamored with some of the flashy plays he'd made during his first two years. I think he was actually bored with the routines play that is so important in games. In the case of both X and Cartier, I saw occasions during the past year when they did not pass the ball to the freshmen when they were open. I don't think they respected the skills of their teammates.
The reality is that neither Cartier nor X is as good as they think they are. I think Weber liked both of them. I suspect he was incredibly frustrated that both were prone to making lazy and sometimes stupid passes. He kept telling himself that they were good kids who were going to get It right the next time out, and they would reward him with missed dunks at critical times. Some players are just not cut out to be leaders on a team and I think both Cartier and X fit that description. I suspect the poor play caused some resentment among their teammates, but Weber saw them as the alpha dogs and was stuck with them as team leaders.
I think down the road we will see that D Gordon is a leader. I don't think he was the best shooter or best scorer on his team in high school, but he held his team together by doing all of the things a leader does. As freshman with an evolving skill set, he couldn't lead the Cats this year and he deferred to older players, who he couldn't make better because they already thought they were good.
BTW, Mak and Stockard, sad to say, were not factors in the Cats' win over Kentucky. There were very few attempts to take the ball inside and the ones that were made failed. McGuirl had some good moments, especially when Barry set him up for a long three and on some fast breaks.
