OSU Game Preview and Thread

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
ChemEngCat
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Re: OSU Game Preview and Thread

Post by ChemEngCat » February 12th, 2020, 1:09 pm

Have to agree with learnin about how the game is getting more and more physical. Multiple times last night, Likelele would push off the defender and fully extend the arm continuing the push. In my book that is an offensive foul. Not blaming refereeing for the loss, just agreeing with previous posts on how physical the game has become. Is it this way at the high school level too? I have only seen a few high school games this year and didn't notice it.

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Post by Gorhoops » February 12th, 2020, 1:18 pm

I may be an idiot, but a lot of what I see when learnin and others talk about the game being more physical, honestly, is poor basketball fundamentals and poor defense being taught. When I was a young coach coming up through the high school ranks it was buried in my head that good defense meant you didn't foul. Good offense meant you didn't have to push off like LIkele was last night, good offense didn't include just putting your head down and flying to the goal trying to get a whistle.

I know that some coaches like Hugs try to beat the crap out of the opponent on defense and really try to enforce their will, but a lot of what I see is just bad positioning, bad footwork and a lot of trying to block shots, etc.

I am not going to make excuses for officials, but a lot of the problem is they are forced to call or not call stuff based on poor fundamentals by players that lead to poor positioning and lots of grabbing and hacking, as well as most offensive systems relying on guards trying to get the ball in the paint on the dribble, usually with a ball screen.

I don't really know why it is like that, if it is the AAU circuit or just poor coaching from top to bottom or what, but that is what I see. Some of it is bad officiating, some of it is style of play, some of it is just pure bad fundamentals.

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Post by learnin » February 12th, 2020, 1:23 pm

ChemEngCat wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 1:09 pm
Have to agree with learnin about how the game is getting more and more physical. Multiple times last night, Likelele would push off the defender and fully extend the arm continuing the push. In my book that is an offensive foul. Not blaming refereeing for the loss, just agreeing with previous posts on how physical the game has become. Is it this way at the high school level too? I have only seen a few high school games this year and didn't notice it.
No, it's not that way in the high school game. The High School game is much more fun to watch most of the time, IMHO.

Ask yourself which half, in last night's game, was the more ugly. It was the first half and that is when most of the physicality took place. Neither team's shooting was worth a crap in the first half and that was because it was a wrestling match.

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Post by learnin » February 12th, 2020, 1:25 pm

Gorhoops wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 1:18 pm
I may be an idiot, but a lot of what I see when learnin and others talk about the game being more physical, honestly, is poor basketball fundamentals and poor defense being taught. When I was a young coach coming up through the high school ranks it was buried in my head that good defense meant you didn't foul. Good offense meant you didn't have to push off like LIkele was last night, good offense didn't include just putting your head down and flying to the goal trying to get a whistle.

I know that some coaches like Hugs try to beat the crap out of the opponent on defense and really try to enforce their will, but a lot of what I see is just bad positioning, bad footwork and a lot of trying to block shots, etc.

I am not going to make excuses for officials, but a lot of the problem is they are forced to call or not call stuff based on poor fundamentals by players that lead to poor positioning and lots of grabbing and hacking, as well as most offensive systems relying on guards trying to get the ball in the paint on the dribble, usually with a ball screen.

I don't really know why it is like that, if it is the AAU circuit or just poor coaching from top to bottom or what, but that is what I see. Some of it is bad officiating, some of it is style of play, some of it is just pure bad fundamentals.

"they are forced to call or not call stuff based on poor fundamentals by players that lead to poor positioning and lots of grabbing and hacking,"

Man, you said a mouthful there.

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Post by Highway26north » February 12th, 2020, 6:19 pm

If you can get away with grabbing and shoving, then don't you have to coach your own guys to grab and shove themselves, or they'll just get run over? Weber's man D, when guys play it, is plenty physical. I distinctly recall Cal grousing about it after The Game.

Very good girls HS basketball is really fun to watch because there's so much less of that crap. Our local HS had a 4-year starter at guard who's now excelling as a freshman at Wisconsin. Great outside game; great inside game. Everybody moving. A once every 30-years team for a town of 10k.

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Post by learnin » February 12th, 2020, 8:19 pm

Let's talk ugly. The #3 team, in the nation, had 21 points with under one minute in the first half at West Virginia. The best big man in the country had 2 points and could hardly stay on the court. This year is very ugly basketball across the nation and, because of physicality, there isn't much difference between the best and mediocre.

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Post by gdgjr78 » February 12th, 2020, 8:37 pm

learnin wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 8:19 pm
Let's talk ugly. The #3 team, in the nation, had 21 points with under one minute in the first half at West Virginia. The best big man in the country had 2 points and could hardly stay on the court. This year is very ugly basketball across the nation and, because of physicality, there isn't much difference between the best and mediocre.
Like I said ku and Baylor are overrated, they're quality teams but they are feasting on a lot of garbage teams from 5-10 in the big 12.
"Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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Post by learnin » February 12th, 2020, 11:38 pm

gdgjr78 wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 8:37 pm
learnin wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 8:19 pm
Let's talk ugly. The #3 team, in the nation, had 21 points with under one minute in the first half at West Virginia. The best big man in the country had 2 points and could hardly stay on the court. This year is very ugly basketball across the nation and, because of physicality, there isn't much difference between the best and mediocre.
Like I said ku and Baylor are overrated, they're quality teams but they are feasting on a lot of garbage teams from 5-10 in the big 12.
They both had pretty darned good non con resume's.

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Pick 'Em

Post by tmcats » February 13th, 2020, 11:48 am

calling either baylor or ku anything but elite this year makes no sense to me. both have high-quality guard play. both have bigs. both are deep. both are old. it would not surprise me if they make the e8 and one or the other goes to the f4. and watch out for txt. they're just rounding into form as their newcomers season. i do agree the b12 bottom - k-state, isu, tcu and oSu - are not as good as previous years bottom four.
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Post by gdgjr78 » February 13th, 2020, 1:31 pm

tmcats wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 11:48 am
calling either baylor or ku anything but elite this year makes no sense to me. both have high-quality guard play. both have bigs. both are deep. both are old. it would not surprise me if they make the e8 and one or the other goes to the f4. and watch out for txt. they're just rounding into form as their newcomers season. i do agree the b12 bottom - k-state, isu, tcu and oSu - are not as good as previous years bottom four.
We'll see what happens come March and don't give me the "ncaa tourney is a total crapshoot blah blah" that's just a way to explain KSU losing in the first rd the two times they won parts of big 12 championships.
"Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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