Interesting comment by Weber on Kaosi in press conference

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
pulitzerdave
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Re: Interesting comment by Weber on Kaosi in press conference

Post by pulitzerdave » January 29th, 2020, 10:34 pm

KSUbetcha wrote:
January 29th, 2020, 3:48 pm
I can't remember the last "true" Big Man we've had in the program actually contribute points and offensi/defensive rebounding abilities at the same clip. Of course DJ was a really good big, but I'd say he was more of a big 4 than a real 5.

We won't really know what we really have, until we can get all the new players on campus next fall... But we should have a lot more talented team next season, with the veterans coming back and the new players lacing up their shoes for the Cats!!

:D
Maybe that last "true" Big Man was Nick Pino. :o :o :o :o :o

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Post by kinsleycat » January 29th, 2020, 11:26 pm

Nick pino was definitely a BIG man. Personally I always liked the potential that JHR exhibited.

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Post by Gorhoops » January 30th, 2020, 10:15 am

wild@nite wrote:
January 29th, 2020, 8:22 pm
We will disagree because if you don't know some things you can do to develop bigs (footwork, post moves, beat on them to build aggressiveness and confidence, establishing position in relation to the ball, work on change in mentality etc..) it's pointless to debate it with you. You've basically stated unless a big has "it", "it" can't be developed and that's dead wrong. I'm not asking for a 15-10 guy, but how about improvement? Keep making excuses for lack of that. I don't believe in the excuse game. If my players aren't getting better, I blame myself unless they just don't care. Then it's a matter of "ride the bench" or check your gear in.

In my opinion, we are failing in the big deptartment and it's not just recruiting fails. That's another excuse. It's part of it, and so is our strength program, I believe, but not the reasons these guys aren't producing anymore than last year. Or the year before.

I've said my piece. I'll leave it there because I know where these disagreements go and I'm not going there in this thread.



Ok, you said you didn't want to go on with this thread, but I just have to ask, and feel free to ignore, but I have to ask, what do you think our big guy coach is doing or not doing that is keeping these guys from improving??? Sure, you made a nice list of things that all coaches do, including I'm sure, our coaches, which worked with DJ and worked with Gip and worked with Dean, so what is it they are not doing that they should be??

All I am saying is, I guarantee they have been doing the same drills and work with our guys that every other coach in America is doing, yet they have not improved. To me, at that point it becomes about something else. With Mak, is is obviously energy and hands.

Not trying to argue, but come on, do you really think our bigs don't work on footwork, post moves, etc??

At some point, they just are what they are, and if it isn't good enough, it is more about recruiting

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Post by wild@nite » January 30th, 2020, 11:43 am

Gorhoops wrote:
January 30th, 2020, 10:15 am
wild@nite wrote:
January 29th, 2020, 8:22 pm
We will disagree because if you don't know some things you can do to develop bigs (footwork, post moves, beat on them to build aggressiveness and confidence, establishing position in relation to the ball, work on change in mentality etc..) it's pointless to debate it with you. You've basically stated unless a big has "it", "it" can't be developed and that's dead wrong. I'm not asking for a 15-10 guy, but how about improvement? Keep making excuses for lack of that. I don't believe in the excuse game. If my players aren't getting better, I blame myself unless they just don't care. Then it's a matter of "ride the bench" or check your gear in.

In my opinion, we are failing in the big deptartment and it's not just recruiting fails. That's another excuse. It's part of it, and so is our strength program, I believe, but not the reasons these guys aren't producing anymore than last year. Or the year before.

I've said my piece. I'll leave it there because I know where these disagreements go and I'm not going there in this thread.



Ok, you said you didn't want to go on with this thread, but I just have to ask, and feel free to ignore, but I have to ask, what do you think our big guy coach is doing or not doing that is keeping these guys from improving??? Sure, you made a nice list of things that all coaches do, including I'm sure, our coaches, which worked with DJ and worked with Gip and worked with Dean, so what is it they are not doing that they should be??

All I am saying is, I guarantee they have been doing the same drills and work with our guys that every other coach in America is doing, yet they have not improved. To me, at that point it becomes about something else. With Mak, is is obviously energy and hands.

Not trying to argue, but come on, do you really think our bigs don't work on footwork, post moves, etc??

At some point, they just are what they are, and if it isn't good enough, it is more about recruiting
It's not a matter of "if" they work on these things, but how efficiently? Some coaches are far more efficient than others. Some coaches can change a work ethic, a mentality, and yes, improve a player. Those are the good coaches and in my opinion, Korn isn't getting results.
All coaches teach the Shell drill, defensive positioning, hedges, communication, but Bruce Weber gets his kids to perform those things better than most coaches. Why? All coaches do it, right? (your words, not mine). Some coaches are far better at getting through to players and developing day by day. It's the relationship qualities and motivating aspects, not just the drills. If you don't get that, I don't know what to tell you. It's not all about the drills or every coach would be equal. Correct?

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Post by tmcats » January 30th, 2020, 11:58 am

mawien had a solid game again last night. he's really a key to k-state winning in league play. rebounded the hell out of ou.
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Post by Gorhoops » January 30th, 2020, 11:59 am

wild@nite wrote:
January 30th, 2020, 11:43 am
Gorhoops wrote:
January 30th, 2020, 10:15 am





Ok, you said you didn't want to go on with this thread, but I just have to ask, and feel free to ignore, but I have to ask, what do you think our big guy coach is doing or not doing that is keeping these guys from improving??? Sure, you made a nice list of things that all coaches do, including I'm sure, our coaches, which worked with DJ and worked with Gip and worked with Dean, so what is it they are not doing that they should be??

All I am saying is, I guarantee they have been doing the same drills and work with our guys that every other coach in America is doing, yet they have not improved. To me, at that point it becomes about something else. With Mak, is is obviously energy and hands.

Not trying to argue, but come on, do you really think our bigs don't work on footwork, post moves, etc??

At some point, they just are what they are, and if it isn't good enough, it is more about recruiting
It's not a matter of "if" they work on these things, but how efficiently? Some coaches are far more efficient than others. Some coaches can change a work ethic, a mentality, and yes, improve a player. Those are the good coaches and in my opinion, Korn isn't getting results.
All coaches teach the Shell drill, defensive positioning, hedges, communication, but Bruce Weber gets his kids to perform those things better than most coaches. Why? All coaches do it, right? (your words, not mine). Some coaches are far better at getting through to players and developing day by day. It's the relationship qualities and motivating aspects, not just the drills. If you don't get that, I don't know what to tell you. It's not all about the drills or every coach would be equal. Correct?



Sure, that all sounds great. Some coaches are better than others. But my point is, every player has a ceiling and i don't care how you coach them, they are only going to get so good. Skylar Thompson has very poor pocket presence after four years in the program. Is Collin Klein poor at developing pocket presence, or is it just that Skylar doesn't have that inner feel for the pocket?? Coach Weber said last night that he can tell at the opening tip whether Mak has energy or not. Some days he does, some days he doesn't. Is that on the coaches or is that on Mak??

Listen, I'm not arguing that our coaches are good at developing Bigs, I said in this thread I won't believe this UTEP kid is a difference maker until I see him finish around the rim. My point is, at some point, they reach their ceiling and there is nothing more a coach can do. I would imagine that at this point, Mak just is what he is.

If anyone thinks Mak would be a ton better at KU or anywhere else, I guess we can agree to disagree on that. Again, Doke still can't shoot outside of a foot from the rim, so why not?? If he was at Wake playing for Manning, would Doke be able to make 15 footers and layups?? I highly doubt it.

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Post by wild@nite » January 30th, 2020, 12:25 pm

Ok, I'm good with disagreeing on this. I know from experience that players respond differently to different coaches. I think Mak would absolutely be better under Danny Manning. He would most certainly learn more than a drop step. A good post coach would implement an up and under, a jump hook, a quick spin, Sikma move, face up and attack, or perhaps even a fade since he's only 6'8". Not to say he could learn all of these, but maybe develop 1 or 2. Nope. No signature move at all. No counter move at all. Nothing, in 3 years for him or Stockard, but we're not going to agree, obviously.

Also, referencing your post above. Brad Korn did not work with Gip and maybe one year with DJ, maybe. He doesn't get credit for them improving. 1 guy since Korn has arrived as the big coach has gotten better and I'll say it til I'm blue, that guy was gonna get better regardless because he had "it". Development is a huge part of coaching and if you can't do that then you better out recruit people. Oh.... We're not doing that either in this department.

We are doing well with guards and I 100% believe that Weber needs to address this weak part of the program.
Last edited by wild@nite on January 30th, 2020, 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by tmcats » January 30th, 2020, 12:32 pm

Danny Manning

Wake Forest W-74 L-104

Overall W-112 L-133
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Post by wild@nite » January 30th, 2020, 12:37 pm

Danny Manning.... KU"s posts have been pretty pedestrian since he left the "big" position. Not a coincidence. He was a good post recruiter and teacher. Not such a great head coach, but if you paid attention, there are many coaches who are masters at a specific craft and struggle in the head position.

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Post by tmcats » January 30th, 2020, 1:02 pm

yep, and coaching wake level talent versus adidas level is different as well.
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