Apologia Pro Men's Basketball

COTY Jerome Tang and his 2023 Elite Eight Cats
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learnin
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Apologia Pro Men's Basketball

Post by learnin » January 27th, 2020, 7:10 pm

There has been a very spirited discussion going on since the scuffle at Lawrence. First of all, I want to thank all the participants for an invigorating and, mostly, decent discussion. During the discussion, I have been at odds with several posters I call friends and with whom I have a great deal of respect. I'm sure they understand that my rebuttals are not meant as an attack but, rather, a defense of our team and coaches. It's understandable that some would question the discipline and character of our coaches and players after the poor start to this season and then the scuffle. I'm not ready to concede that suggestion at this point.

There's a fine line between thuggery and tenacity. For instance, Larry Bird was involved in more than a few fights. Is he a thug or is he a fighter who hates to lose? Would Larry have come off the bench if Shaq had stood over Danny Ainge daring for a fight when no official intervenes? There is a thin line between backing down and being a quitter. For the record, I do not think Gordon should have stolen the ball, but not because he's a thug or does not know how to be a sport. I wish he had not stolen the ball only because there was no point. I do not see, for the reasons I've already put forth, where KU had quit. Also, I do not believe Gordon defied a clear order from his coach. There are only two people who know what happened and what D. Gordon's intent was and that's Coach Weber and D. Gordon. If you want to know how Coach felt about the situation, after having talked with Gordon about the incident, you need not look any further than the fact that D. Gordon started the very next game. I don't think Coach wants to break the spirit of a player who has the grit and tenacity so lacking in many players.

I, also, do not believe James Love is a thug even though he was in the scuffle. I do not believe he went to the stare down because he wanted to throw fists. In the pushing that was going on, he suddenly found himself in the path of a jab and he responded as I think any of us would. Levi Stockard was in the midst, but I know he wasn't looking for a fight because he was shoved after Self had already ended the fray, by McCormack, and he just looked at him like, " yea, right." After reviewing this whole incident, wiping out all bias, I can only question the intent of A. Gordon. Don't get me wrong, Love should be suspended because he did throw fists, but only after almost taking one to the face.

And while I'm at it. I'm a poster who doesn't have much respect for Bill Self for reasons I'm sure I don't have to mention. But, after this scuffle, I have gained a smidgen of respect for even him. He raced into the fray and pulled his players off the pile. He then went back to the dressing room and said when asked about who was at fault. "I don't know, but I do know we were in the fault. Don't tell me about a steal....if the kid does it when he's 20 points ahead, then, that might be different." You might say I kind of feel sorry for a lot of people who were involved in the scuffle. I don't believe, from this scuffle, that I could label any of them as thugs except maybe the one who picked up a bar stool. But, even here, I read his apology and I even feel sorry for him.

So, this is my last post concerning who deserves the blame, etc., concerning this situation. I thank everyone for an invigorating, and stimulating discussion. I apologize for any one who I might have offended. Feel free to add your two cents and last thoughts.

xtrawildcat
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Post by xtrawildcat » January 27th, 2020, 7:29 pm

A Gordon suspended for three games. Now serving his punishment. Move on.

Highway26north
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Post by Highway26north » January 28th, 2020, 9:38 am

Thanks for posting Learnin. This Board is a class operation. Tho it's rarely (or never?!) said, thanks to all Mods for that.

Kralicek
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Post by Kralicek » January 28th, 2020, 10:17 am

This is by far the most civil KSU board going. I enjoy all who participate except ......... :D

Number8son
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Post by Number8son » January 28th, 2020, 5:20 pm

I appreciate what Bill Self said, but I still have very little respect for him. All you have to do is watch how his teams play....including his Illinois team(watch their NCAA tournament games from years ago). Ask Barry Brown. It's just my opinion which means very little.

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Post by Highway26north » January 28th, 2020, 10:36 pm

Numbers: What I remember about his NCAA tournament games at Illinois is that, with great personnel, he lost them....Kansas w/ Heinrich-OK, but winnable; Notre Dame....u-g-h. Maybe others I've forgotten.

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Jax
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Post by Jax » January 29th, 2020, 9:08 am

The fact that the brawl may be the defining moment and what most remembers about this season, should be embarrassing enough.
Last edited by Jax on January 29th, 2020, 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We don’t see things as they are; we see them as we are. - Anaïs Nin

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Post by hilltopwildcat » January 29th, 2020, 10:07 am

I'll just say as an official, your worst nightmare is people coming off the bench. Most altercations between a couple of players can be handled relatively easy. When people start pouring in from everywhere, you're screwed.

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Post by Puffdad » January 29th, 2020, 1:15 pm

What’s really fun is when parents come out on the floor during the summer to fight with each other!!!!!!

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Post by hilltopwildcat » January 29th, 2020, 6:35 pm

Puffdad wrote:
January 29th, 2020, 1:15 pm
What’s really fun is when parents come out on the floor during the summer to fight with each other!!!!!!
Well they're.........well you know.

Brannen Greene is the only 1 I remember pulling a stunt like that. Speaking of the former beak...http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/feb/ ... greene-st/

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