PERSPECTIVE

COTY Jerome Tang and his 2023 Elite Eight Cats
learnin
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Re: PERSPECTIVE

Post by learnin » January 20th, 2020, 10:05 pm

Back to the OP. I'll offer my two cents.

Before this season started, I stated it would be important for one of the newcomers to step up if this team was going to find a modicum of success. I thought our four veterans would need some offensive help, especially because the M&M's (Mike and Mak) were somewhat of an enigma. Would these two become double digit scorers. If so, we might find that success even though a newcomer didn't shine. As the season progressed, it became evident that Mak and Mike were not going to produce much in the way of offense. So, we had two double figure scorers and a slew of five point per game performers. That wasn't enough and I believe a lot of these close losses were due to frustration from not having two more scorers to take the heat from Xavier and Cartier. Cartier told Coach, at the beginning, "Coach, they're trying to stop me from scoring." Yes, opposing teams were going to shut down Xavier and Cartier so the others would have to step up. I could see it was frustrating as hell for Xavier and Cartier because they couldn't get decent shots. So, Coach told Cartier to do other things and Cartier began to focus on getting others open shots. That was good, and Cartier's assists did go up, but there was a downside. Turnovers, also, went up.

But, through it all, defense was still a staple and defense puts you in a position to win even if offense is not good. This is why we were in a great number of close games. Because of all this, I believed this team was just a tweak, or two, from being successful. I was frustrated as hell, if you will.
I believed if we could just find some one else, or perhaps two, to step up and become double digit scorers, this team would make us fairly proud. I still believe this team was just a hair of making a run for the top 4 in the league. I still believe this team is as good as Texas Tech and West Virginia. I still believe this team is better than Iowa State, Texas, TCU, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

Yes, I was frustrated because I believe our coaches (see I do believe coaches are fair game for criticism) were too slow in trying to find, nay, demand that someone else step up after it became evident Mike and Mak were not going to do it. I believed that D. Gordon and D. Sloan were the most likely to provide double figure scoring punch. I was the one who mentioned the pecking order and how I believed it was holding back the newcomers from finding their potential. You can't shine unless you are allowed to fail. I can understand the coaching mentality. You're just a few possessions, here and there, from having a number of more victories, so you call upon the veterans to produce that added punch.

Little by little, Sloan and D. Gordon are figuring more into the mix. So, it was no surprise to me that the West Virginia game was soon to happen. Frankly, I didn't think it would be W. Virginia, I thought it would be Texas Tech for the obvious reasons. Just tonight, West Virginia simply annihilated Texas.

So, I was frustrated because I knew how close this team could be. And, yes, I think some of the negativity was overboard as I've stated before.

I still believe Xavier Sneed is a NBA prospect. It was very hard for this young man to be pressured to score when others wouldn't.

I've been frustrated with Cartier and no one has criticized his lackadaisical passing. But, make no mistake about it, Cartier is a good, solid ball player. Who can forget two years ago when Kam went down to injury and it looked as if it would be a dismal season? Cartier got the start and, Dean and he went to work and saved the season. We don't go to the elite 8 without Cartier.

I, also, don't believe we can expect a horrible season every third year because Bruce Weber is the coach. Yes, we had two bad years of recruiting, but those came after the Foster melt down delivered two bad seasons. We are now working on two good recruiting classes and, if the team can respond well the rest of this season and ride high next, there is no reason to expect that recruiting will flop again.

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Post by Hypeman » January 21st, 2020, 12:29 am

learnin wrote:
January 20th, 2020, 9:40 pm
Hypeman wrote:
January 20th, 2020, 4:47 pm


This is hilarious.

Although I think BW is a solid coach. The best revenge for BW would be to take his services elsewhere and watch us fall back to where we spent the previous 30+ years. In b-ball purgatory. Hopefully that doesn’t happen anytime soon.
Your point is well taken. It's precisely why myself, and I would imagine tmcats, fight this BW hate whenever we encounter it. I, for one, want a coach who tries to do it the right way and brings a good amount of success to the program. For 20 of the 30 years I have lived in the Manhattan area, basketball stunk. When Huggins and Frank came, it began to change and no one was more excited than myself. Yet, I came to realize that the success was jumpstarted by the corrupt DC Pipeline. We all know what came to light over the last 3 years. If the program experiences several years of lower tier finishes, I'll be the first to demand a change. Until then, I'll respond when I see the polemic arise because I happen to like two conference championships and an elite 8.
I do too. The cold hard facts are during the Huggie / Martin years they had the one good tourney run but never better than 4th place in the league, and that was with the best players they could buy. I figure that under Weber we compete for the league once every 4 years and the NCAA is a crap shoot of course. We’ve bowed out early to weaker teams and nearly made the final 4 with half a team.

That’s probably as good as can ever be expected. Especially if he does it clean. I bet 90% of the schools in the country would like to have that.

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Pick 'Em

Post by katlander » January 21st, 2020, 10:26 am

I think Coach Weber and staff can stack good year on good year if we can do the same with recruiting classes, and it appears we may be there, or very close to doing just that. Next year will tell the tale. Just be patient boys and girls. We just may be witnessing the true K-State basketball renaissance where we once again are a perennial league leader. Pie in the sky? Maybe, I've been accused of being a sunshine pumper, but its better than the alternative. Its a better place to live as opposed to the depths of despair fueled by gloom and doom. But I don't say this just to be positive but because I see it as a distinct possibility.

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Pick 'Em

Post by wild@nite » January 21st, 2020, 10:44 am

I agree. I like our current freshmen and love the looks of next year's class that may get even better pretty soon. If we can land another top 25 type class in 2021, look out. I still stand by my biggest criticism of this staff. Recruiting and developing bigs. Maybe that is changing? It needs to.

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Post by pulitzerdave » January 21st, 2020, 11:55 am

learnin wrote:
January 20th, 2020, 10:05 pm
Back to the OP. I'll offer my two cents.

Before this season started, I stated it would be important for one of the newcomers to step up if this team was going to find a modicum of success. I thought our four veterans would need some offensive help, especially because the M&M's (Mike and Mak) were somewhat of an enigma. Would these two become double digit scorers. If so, we might find that success even though a newcomer didn't shine. As the season progressed, it became evident that Mak and Mike were not going to produce much in the way of offense. So, we had two double figure scorers and a slew of five point per game performers. That wasn't enough and I believe a lot of these close losses were due to frustration from not having two more scorers to take the heat from Xavier and Cartier. Cartier told Coach, at the beginning, "Coach, they're trying to stop me from scoring." Yes, opposing teams were going to shut down Xavier and Cartier so the others would have to step up. I could see it was frustrating as hell for Xavier and Cartier because they couldn't get decent shots. So, Coach told Cartier to do other things and Cartier began to focus on getting others open shots. That was good, and Cartier's assists did go up, but there was a downside. Turnovers, also, went up.

But, through it all, defense was still a staple and defense puts you in a position to win even if offense is not good. This is why we were in a great number of close games. Because of all this, I believed this team was just a tweak, or two, from being successful. I was frustrated as hell, if you will.
I believed if we could just find some one else, or perhaps two, to step up and become double digit scorers, this team would make us fairly proud. I still believe this team was just a hair of making a run for the top 4 in the league. I still believe this team is as good as Texas Tech and West Virginia. I still believe this team is better than Iowa State, Texas, TCU, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

Yes, I was frustrated because I believe our coaches (see I do believe coaches are fair game for criticism) were too slow in trying to find, nay, demand that someone else step up after it became evident Mike and Mak were not going to do it. I believed that D. Gordon and D. Sloan were the most likely to provide double figure scoring punch. I was the one who mentioned the pecking order and how I believed it was holding back the newcomers from finding their potential. You can't shine unless you are allowed to fail. I can understand the coaching mentality. You're just a few possessions, here and there, from having a number of more victories, so you call upon the veterans to produce that added punch.

Little by little, Sloan and D. Gordon are figuring more into the mix. So, it was no surprise to me that the West Virginia game was soon to happen. Frankly, I didn't think it would be W. Virginia, I thought it would be Texas Tech for the obvious reasons. Just tonight, West Virginia simply annihilated Texas.

So, I was frustrated because I knew how close this team could be. And, yes, I think some of the negativity was overboard as I've stated before.

I still believe Xavier Sneed is a NBA prospect. It was very hard for this young man to be pressured to score when others wouldn't.

I've been frustrated with Cartier and no one has criticized his lackadaisical passing. But, make no mistake about it, Cartier is a good, solid ball player. Who can forget two years ago when Kam went down to injury and it looked as if it would be a dismal season? Cartier got the start and, Dean and he went to work and saved the season. We don't go to the elite 8 without Cartier.

I, also, don't believe we can expect a horrible season every third year because Bruce Weber is the coach. Yes, we had two bad years of recruiting, but those came after the Foster melt down delivered two bad seasons. We are now working on two good recruiting classes and, if the team can respond well the rest of this season and ride high next, there is no reason to expect that recruiting will flop again.
Two things happened that hamstrung this team from the beginning.

First, it was thought by some fans, and the coaching staff that Mak was going to have his best season. Why wouldn't you think that? That hasn't happened, and realistically, won't happen. Can we get a difference making game or two from him? Maybe. But that's all I expect at this point.

Second, I think that everyone expected more scoring from the off-guard position. Either Mike was going to have a break-out year offensively, or D.Gordon was going to step into that role RIGHT AWAY. Neither happened. Going forward, can we expect more from D.Gordon, or see mercurial play? That's a very key question and the answer will determine the fate of this team, IMO. Yes, one player can make that much of a difference.

I don't think we can fix the first problem, but can fix the second. That might be good enough to scratch out 6-7 more wins and set us up for another good recruiting cycle. That essentially means that we would have to go nearly .500 the rest of the way and steal a win in the Big 12 Tournament.

At this point, I'd take that.

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