Is this the year...

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team

Will the home court winning record streak end this year?

Poll ended at January 1st, 2020, 2:53 pm

No
8
40%
Yes
12
60%
 
Total votes: 20

learnin
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Re: Is this the year...

Post by learnin » January 8th, 2020, 11:12 pm

wazucat wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 8:01 pm
bigpurpleman wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 7:02 pm


How is that?
Bruce seems destined to not finish with a winning home record, a streak that has been in existence since the end of World War II, that's 1945 for the history challenged . It survived the regimes of Tan Tom and Wooly, let that soak in.

Bruce is, also, the first coach in a generation to deliver not one, but two championships. Let that soak in. Are we going to start down this road again?

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Post by wild@nite » January 9th, 2020, 10:53 am

"Again" being the key word. Why does it come up so often? Yes, he has two titles, but he has some very underachieving teams too, just like at Illinois. If you win titles, you deserve accolades. If you finish 9th or 10th, you deserve the opposite. Some are so quick to give him credit, yet get so hurt when someone criticizes. Every coach in America that recruits and develops his players and goes from 1st to worst (or near it) is going to get hammered on message boards.

I'm not going down that road yet because I'm trying to remain open minded and I appreciate Bruce doing things the right way, but I can see why some would be frustrated with this. Year 8. Weak noncon home schedule. Coming off a conference title, etc... Not understanding why some would be frustrated is not very open minded of you. It goes both ways.

BW has been inconsistent as a HC here and at Illinois and every time he gets a chance to win over the fanbase here, he seems to poop his pants. It's really that simple. After this season, he will be right back hovering around a .500 conference record after 8 years.

I hope people hold off getting too emotional and hammering him, but I certainly understand the frustration. I want to see next year's class come in and D.Gordon, Murphy, etc... grow.

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Post by ToledoCat#2 » January 9th, 2020, 11:01 am

Weber seems to be a coach who will never be loved, but who might be respected for his honest program that peaks every 4-5 years and spends the other years rebuilding. His history shows his successes are consistently spotty.

For the record, I'd rather have an honest program that a scummy one like the Squawks downriver.

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Post by bigpurpleman » January 9th, 2020, 11:10 am

wazucat wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 8:01 pm
bigpurpleman wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 7:02 pm


How is that?
Bruce seems destined to not finish with a winning home record, a streak that has been in existence since the end of World War II, that's 1945 for the history challenged . It survived the regimes of Tan Tom and Wooly, let that soak in.
Ok. Sounded like you were claiming it was intentional. That’s ok, Wooly and Tan Tom never brought us two conf championships and an elite 8 run with his best player on the bench. That gives him some leeway.

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Post by learnin » January 9th, 2020, 11:40 am

wild@nite wrote:
January 9th, 2020, 10:53 am
"Again" being the key word. Why does it come up so often? Yes, he has two titles, but he has some very underachieving teams too, just like at Illinois. If you win titles, you deserve accolades. If you finish 9th or 10th, you deserve the opposite. Some are so quick to give him credit, yet get so hurt when someone criticizes. Every coach in America that recruits and develops his players and goes from 1st to worst (or near it) is going to get hammered on message boards.

I'm not going down that road yet because I'm trying to remain open minded and I appreciate Bruce doing things the right way, but I can see why some would be frustrated with this. Year 8. Weak noncon home schedule. Coming off a conference title, etc... Not understanding why some would be frustrated is not very open minded of you. It goes both ways.

BW has been inconsistent as a HC here and at Illinois and every time he gets a chance to win over the fanbase here, he seems to poop his pants. It's really that simple. After this season, he will be right back hovering around a .500 conference record after 8 years.

I hope people hold off getting too emotional and hammering him, but I certainly understand the frustration. I want to see next year's class come in and D.Gordon, Murphy, etc... grow.
I have no problem with fans criticizing the coach. I've probably offered more criticism of coaching this year than most. I stated, last year, that if the team missed the tournament, it might be time for a change. I'm the one who has complained about the pecking order this year. I'm one who feels every aspect, and every figure involved in K-State sports, is fair game for proper criticism. I have a problem with posters who come to the discussion with an agenda. Don't get me wrong. Everyone is welcome, agenda or not, as long as they don't flaunt the rules. I'm simply going to point out the agendas when they present themselves. We all have preconceived notions and biases, which affect our reasoning. For much of my adult life, I was the most bias driven arguer this side of Pluto, but I was knocked down by my agenda in a big way so I promised myself I would open my mind. I would become a skeptic. I would no longer hand my reason over to some ideology.

Bruce Weber was hated because he was hired by John Currie. John was hated because he wouldn't put up with cheating and bad behavior.
Bruce Weber has managed to throw some water on this agenda, but the embers still glow and are waiting for the first opportunity to become a raging fire. I'm going to throw water on this as soon as it begins to ignite because Bruce Weber deserves it. It's not enough that he disproved all the first objections.

HE CAN'T WIN WITH HIS OWN PLAYERS. Remember that one? Well, he did win with his own players. In fact, Weber is the only coach who has won with his own players in over a generation. And he did so without cheating as did some of our past coaches. With the old accusation being laid to rest, what is the new accusation?

HE HAS GOOD SEASONS AND HE HAS BAD SEASONS. As do most coaches who take over a power five program that is not a blue blood and who does not cheat. When the good seasons cease to come about, or are far in between, then, I'll be the first to say it's time for a change. Until that time, I'm quite willing to support the program through the lean years.

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Post by tmcats » January 9th, 2020, 12:59 pm

coach weber will be at k-state as long as he wants. he's a fine d1 coach who has more conference championships than any coach in the league sans cheatin' bill self. weber doesn't cheat. he's well respected. he has a solid group of freshmen and a potentially great class coming this summer. this questioning talk here goes back to nonsense from years ago to wit i'll remain kind. remember, bob huggins finished in the cellar (4-14) last season.
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Post by wild@nite » January 9th, 2020, 3:21 pm

learnin wrote:
January 9th, 2020, 11:40 am
wild@nite wrote:
January 9th, 2020, 10:53 am
"Again" being the key word. Why does it come up so often? Yes, he has two titles, but he has some very underachieving teams too, just like at Illinois. If you win titles, you deserve accolades. If you finish 9th or 10th, you deserve the opposite. Some are so quick to give him credit, yet get so hurt when someone criticizes. Every coach in America that recruits and develops his players and goes from 1st to worst (or near it) is going to get hammered on message boards.

I'm not going down that road yet because I'm trying to remain open minded and I appreciate Bruce doing things the right way, but I can see why some would be frustrated with this. Year 8. Weak noncon home schedule. Coming off a conference title, etc... Not understanding why some would be frustrated is not very open minded of you. It goes both ways.

BW has been inconsistent as a HC here and at Illinois and every time he gets a chance to win over the fanbase here, he seems to poop his pants. It's really that simple. After this season, he will be right back hovering around a .500 conference record after 8 years.

I hope people hold off getting too emotional and hammering him, but I certainly understand the frustration. I want to see next year's class come in and D.Gordon, Murphy, etc... grow.
I have no problem with fans criticizing the coach. I've probably offered more criticism of coaching this year than most. I stated, last year, that if the team missed the tournament, it might be time for a change. I'm the one who has complained about the pecking order this year. I'm one who feels every aspect, and every figure involved in K-State sports, is fair game for proper criticism. I have a problem with posters who come to the discussion with an agenda. Don't get me wrong. Everyone is welcome, agenda or not, as long as they don't flaunt the rules. I'm simply going to point out the agendas when they present themselves. We all have preconceived notions and biases, which effect our reasoning. For much of my adult life, I was the most bias driven arguer this side of Pluto, but I was knocked down by my agenda in a big way so I promised myself I would open my mind. I would become a skeptic. I would no longer hand my reason over to some ideology.

Bruce Weber was hated because he was hired by John Currie. John was hated because he wouldn't put up with cheating and bad behavior.
Bruce Weber has managed to throw some water on this agenda, but the embers still glow and are waiting for the first opportunity to become a raging fire. I'm going to throw water on this as soon as it begins to ignite because Bruce Weber deserves it. It's not enough that he disproved all the first objections.

HE CAN'T WIN WITH HIS OWN PLAYERS. Remember that one? Well, he did win with his own players. In fact, Weber is the only coach who has won with his own players in over a generation. And he did so without cheating as did some of our past coaches. With the old accusation being laid to rest, what is the new accusation?

HE HAS GOOD SEASONS AND HE HAS BAD SEASONS. As do most coaches who take over a power five program that is not a blue blood and who does not cheat. When the good seasons cease to come about, or are far in between, then, I'll be the first to say it's time for a change. Until that time, I'm quite willing to support the program through the lean years.
I feel like you are addressing a frustration and not my post because that was a ramble that had little to do with my post. I said nothing about a change and you went into a tirade. All I'm saying is that he deserves just as much criticism this year as he deserved accolades last. That's the way it works. He recruited 'em and coached them last year and he recruited and coached 'em this year.

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Post by Hypeman » January 9th, 2020, 5:22 pm

learnin wrote:
January 9th, 2020, 11:40 am
wild@nite wrote:
January 9th, 2020, 10:53 am
"Again" being the key word. Why does it come up so often? Yes, he has two titles, but he has some very underachieving teams too, just like at Illinois. If you win titles, you deserve accolades. If you finish 9th or 10th, you deserve the opposite. Some are so quick to give him credit, yet get so hurt when someone criticizes. Every coach in America that recruits and develops his players and goes from 1st to worst (or near it) is going to get hammered on message boards.

I'm not going down that road yet because I'm trying to remain open minded and I appreciate Bruce doing things the right way, but I can see why some would be frustrated with this. Year 8. Weak noncon home schedule. Coming off a conference title, etc... Not understanding why some would be frustrated is not very open minded of you. It goes both ways.

BW has been inconsistent as a HC here and at Illinois and every time he gets a chance to win over the fanbase here, he seems to poop his pants. It's really that simple. After this season, he will be right back hovering around a .500 conference record after 8 years.

I hope people hold off getting too emotional and hammering him, but I certainly understand the frustration. I want to see next year's class come in and D.Gordon, Murphy, etc... grow.
I have no problem with fans criticizing the coach. I've probably offered more criticism of coaching this year than most. I stated, last year, that if the team missed the tournament, it might be time for a change. I'm the one who has complained about the pecking order this year. I'm one who feels every aspect, and every figure involved in K-State sports, is fair game for proper criticism. I have a problem with posters who come to the discussion with an agenda. Don't get me wrong. Everyone is welcome, agenda or not, as long as they don't flaunt the rules. I'm simply going to point out the agendas when they present themselves. We all have preconceived notions and biases, which effect our reasoning. For much of my adult life, I was the most bias driven arguer this side of Pluto, but I was knocked down by my agenda in a big way so I promised myself I would open my mind. I would become a skeptic. I would no longer hand my reason over to some ideology.

Bruce Weber was hated because he was hired by John Currie. John was hated because he wouldn't put up with cheating and bad behavior.
Bruce Weber has managed to throw some water on this agenda, but the embers still glow and are waiting for the first opportunity to become a raging fire. I'm going to throw water on this as soon as it begins to ignite because Bruce Weber deserves it. It's not enough that he disproved all the first objections.

HE CAN'T WIN WITH HIS OWN PLAYERS. Remember that one? Well, he did win with his own players. In fact, Weber is the only coach who has won with his own players in over a generation. And he did so without cheating as did some of our past coaches. With the old accusation being laid to rest, what is the new accusation?

HE HAS GOOD SEASONS AND HE HAS BAD SEASONS. As do most coaches who take over a power five program that is not a blue blood and who does not cheat. When the good seasons cease to come about, or are far in between, then, I'll be the first to say it's time for a change. Until that time, I'm quite willing to support the program through the lean years.
Nice work, that pretty much sums it up. Although the blue bloods have down years too, Just not KU because the B12 is more concerned about making sure it has a blue blood to market vs. legitimate competition and there isn’t another marketable blue blood like the other conferences have.

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Post by hilltopwildcat » January 10th, 2020, 12:20 am

From perusing this board and watching a few highlights (if my internet didn't suck I'd have watched some games), is Weber trying to pound the proverbial square peg into a round hole? It seems to me like he does that too often. His recruiting seems strange to me. I'd have thought with the team he had and the success he had, we'd have been better. I mean he's had some weird kids here. Sometimes you need to find kids a place where they can play and cut bait. Or get them some of the bunches of scholarships that are never claimed if they want to continue their education at K-State. Just questions. I'm NOT in the Fire Weber crowd if there is such a thing.

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Post by pulitzerdave » January 10th, 2020, 10:18 am

learnin wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 11:12 pm
wazucat wrote:
January 8th, 2020, 8:01 pm


Bruce seems destined to not finish with a winning home record, a streak that has been in existence since the end of World War II, that's 1945 for the history challenged . It survived the regimes of Tan Tom and Wooly, let that soak in.

Bruce is, also, the first coach in a generation to deliver not one, but two championships. Let that soak in. Are we going to start down this road again?
Apparently so learnin. The "old school" guys will always come out in support of the "ole ball coach" when times are tough.

I'm not happy at all about this season, but that doesn't erase what Weber has done. Hartman and other KSU coaches also had crappy seasons, but once a coach is put on KSU's Mount Rushmore, it's hard to get him down.

I was in school during the Hartman era, and basketball was fun then, and attending games was an "event". Sitting in the student section and cheering on wins was a wonderful experience. But I also sat through some stinking, rotten losses - some that cost us championships. That's the way it is with all coaches.

Personally, I didn't care much for Hartman. He was prickly and difficult to work with. He had little respect for any other KSU sports besides men's basketball. I had first hand experience which shaped that view. I don't know Bruce Weber, and have never been around him. But from a distance, he appears to be a good guy, and someone who would be approachable and kind. I realize that coaching personalities are as different as apples and oranges, but part of a man's greatness extends to how he treats others.

I appreciate Hartman's contribution to KSU basketball and that legacy is intact, but comparing him to Weber for the sake of disparaging Weber is cruel. Both coaches have had success along with mixed results in certain years. My personal feelings about Hartman aside, he was a good coach. But no better, or no worse than Bruce Weber. I'll leave it at that.

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