Offense

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
Highway26north
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Re: Offense

Post by Highway26north » November 27th, 2019, 12:08 pm

Echoing Learnin's excellent post, Carti as point guard is obviously a work in progress. It's a big step/change for him. I'm sure it has occurred to the coaches that McGuirl might be a candidate for that role....but I guess not. Carti was getting to be a pretty lethal off-ball threat last year before the injury. Can't be emphasized enough that Mak needs to stay on the floor. It won't be every night that teams can pack the post and let our outside guys (e.g. Sneed) fire away. But sure worked well for Pitt. Carti's two 30-footers were not good shots-at least until they went in.

pulitzerdave
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Post by pulitzerdave » November 27th, 2019, 2:13 pm

I'd follow the KU model for finding a shooter. Go for the college transfer. High school shooters are hit or miss. Find a guy who has done it on the D-1 level at 40% or better. Let's say he's a junior. Give him a 2-year scholarship and then find another guy in 2 years. If a high school player turns out to be a good shooter, then you're even better off. But go with the proven guy first.

tmcats
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Pick 'Em

Post by tmcats » November 27th, 2019, 2:26 pm

pulitzerdave wrote:
November 27th, 2019, 11:17 am
tmcats wrote:
November 27th, 2019, 10:49 am
Luke Kasubke
Who? Oh, that guy. Nice recruit, but so was Will Spradling as a 3-point shooter. What happened there? Here's the thing about finding 3-point shooters. I would put them in an arena setting, with firm rims and watch them shoot 3's while having a player just as tall close out on them. Maybe Luke will be good, maybe he won't.

There have been so many "great" high school shooters, who after transitioning from little gyms to large arenas (depth perception difference is massive) and from loose rims to tight ones, who could not come close to their HS shooting percentages. There's more to finding shooters than watching them play in a high school or AAU game, or looking at their stats. I would put a little more science and logic into the process.
further explain your science and logic for us, p'dave. we're all waiting for more wisdom from the basement keyboard. :popcorn:
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

Ksustephens
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Post by Ksustephens » November 27th, 2019, 5:11 pm

Was this 3 pt shooter highly recruited in high school? I’m assuming if he was a transfer from Iowa that KU lose out if they were recruiting him in hs.
pulitzerdave wrote:
November 26th, 2019, 5:42 pm
learnin wrote:
November 25th, 2019, 4:12 pm
Obviously, the team is struggling with generating offense coming out of the gate. I'll throw out some thoughts, here, and open it up for discussion. First of all, we all hoped Mike would be producing some double digit scoring this year. It's not happening right now although I believe he is capable of doing it. Until he comes around, I believe we are at a disadvantage, offensively, with the players we're putting on the floor at opening tip. If they put Mak, X, Cartier, Mike and Montavious on the floor, we have about 2 1/2 scorers on the floor at this point in time. At the beginning of the season, we had X and Cartier shooting most shots out of the gate with some attempted passes in the middle to Mak. The passes, into the middle, end up being a turnover, or miss, about 75% of the time.

Over the last couple of games, and with Montavious injured, Cartier has been trying to distribute more and shoot less. This means that X is shooting more and they are attempting to throw more into the middle with Mak and Levi. If X takes a while to get going, there's not much offense. I believe we ought to start David at point, Cartier at the 2, X at the 3, Dajuan at the 4 (or X at the 4 and DG at 3) and Mak. I would place X and Dajuan in the corners, which ought to give Dave and Cartier more chances at driving. Drive and kick out to the corners or take it all the way in, especially Cartier.
This gives them another option. Cartier and David are not bad outside shooters. If they still want to pack it in, against us, our guys would have 4 outside shooting threats.

Here's the critical point I'd like to make from my observations so far. They have to find another scoring threat. So far, it seems to me that Mike, Dajuan, David, and Montavious are somewhat hesitant about stepping up to fill that role. Mike is especially comfortable, it seems, with just being a role player and facilitator. He needs to become more aggressive, offensively. It would behoove, IMHO, for our veterans to encourage the newcomers, and Mike, to gain confidence and aggressiveness on the offensive side of the ball. I don't mean to exclude Mak in all of this. Mak can be a scorer, but it seems that he will score in one game and disappear in others. We need one, or more, to develop into that assassin .
Look what one 3-point shooter, the transfer from Iowa, has done for KU's offense in the last few games. This guy wasn't some highly coveted player. But he can shoot. He's a weapon. He opens the court for others. Why can't we find a guy like that instead of another average point guard, or an injury prone big man? We're not prioritizing on signing shooters. It's a vital need in today's game.

SCKSCat
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Post by SCKSCat » November 29th, 2019, 10:54 am

Any predictions when Murphy will return. I would go with a starting line up of newbies and Snead. I think the others would be more effective off the bench. Cartier needs to get riled up, and realized Dean is no longer here. Mak is best playing in spurts

bindweed
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Post by bindweed » December 2nd, 2019, 4:22 pm

Coaching staff needs to see that Mak can't catch the ball in the low post. So quit trying to throw it to him there!!!!!!!!!!!! Back in the dark ages when I played high school we had a 6' 4'' kid who was great at defense and rebounding. But he had a terrible shot, one time I passed him the ball and he missed the shot badly. Coach pulled me out and said if you ever pass him the ball again I will bench you.

KsJoey
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Post by KsJoey » December 2nd, 2019, 5:25 pm

Weber is a great defensive coach. Plenty of stats can back that up. Offensively?... not so much. Even when we have the players, our offense was rarely in tune, early in the year. And even later in the year when our offense was better, it statistically still hasn't been that good, or even good at all.

Even last year with our senior trio consisting of 2 all big team players, our PPG was just 65.8 which is one of the worst in the country, and last in the conference. Free Throw % was last, FG % was 8th, 3pt % was 9th, rebounding offense was last. We won games with our defense which was in the top 3 in most categories. Being +6.2points in scoring margin, and dead last in scoring, is kind of mind blowing... especially considering we haven't had a true rim protector since JO.

Our offense does our players no favors. It caters to pure shooters, which is something Bruce has had a hard time recruiting. Especially watching Dean for 4 years, who was probably our most talented player since Beasley and Pullen... his stats were underwhelming(IMO) compared to what they could have been in a lot of other systems. Of course, that's just my 2 cents from behind my keyboard.
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hilltopwildcat (December 2nd, 2019, 11:17 pm)

Puffdad
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Post by Puffdad » December 2nd, 2019, 6:53 pm

KsJoey wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 5:25 pm
Weber is a great defensive coach. Plenty of stats can back that up. Offensively?... not so much. Even when we have the players, our offense was rarely in tune, early in the year. And even later in the year when our offense was better, it statistically still hasn't been that good, or even good at all.

Even last year with our senior trio consisting of 2 all big team players, our PPG was just 65.8 which is one of the worst in the country, and last in the conference. Free Throw % was last, FG % was 8th, 3pt % was 9th, rebounding offense was last. We won games with our defense which was in the top 3 in most categories. Being +6.2points in scoring margin, and dead last in scoring, is kind of mind blowing... especially considering we haven't had a true rim protector since JO.

Our offense does our players no favors. It caters to pure shooters, which is something Bruce has had a hard time recruiting. Especially watching Dean for 4 years, who was probably our most talented player since Beasley and Pullen... his stats were underwhelming(IMO) compared to what they could have been in a lot of other systems. Of course, that's just my 2 cents from behind my keyboard.
That's what's scary Joey. Because without Dean and somewhat Barry and Kam's offensive stats just think what the returnees offensive stats were last year. You don't want to figure it up.

Section 12-2
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Post by Section 12-2 » December 2nd, 2019, 10:21 pm

A couple of the new guys are pretty good shooters.

pulitzerdave
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Post by pulitzerdave » December 2nd, 2019, 11:29 pm

Section 12-2 wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 10:21 pm
A couple of the new guys are pretty good shooters.
What new guys?

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