KSUvs NDSU

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
Gorhoops
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Re: KSUvs NDSU

Post by Gorhoops » November 7th, 2019, 3:43 pm

That's just it. I just went back and looked at Bilas' rankings in the other thread and he has Tech at #12? He mentions Moretti and some new freshman and says they lost a lot but will still be good. I get it, they made a run and with that run comes respect, but dang, we tied with them and both lost huge pieces, but they are 34 spots better?? He has WVU up in the top 25 because of Culver mainly, but after that they have a whole bunch of new guys. He has Texas before us but he doesn't even mention any players and we know they generally under-achieve. He has ISU in front of us, even though they lost their leading scorer in Shayok and of course has Halliburton as a breakout star. Is Halliburton better than Carti?? debatable.

Again, I have no idea how we will do, but most of the talking heads act like we are going to start 5 first year guys and bring 5 more first year guys off the bench.

Tech is getting ranked that high because of Beard, plain and simple. I guess I just wonder why Weber doesn't command that same respect. His resume is better than Beard's and he has created a culture in his program just the same as Beard.

We have questions on the offensive end for sure, but so does every other team in the league. Heck, look at KU. Everyone talks about their talent, but Self better change how he wants to play because playing those two giants together that can't score outside of two feet is pretty dumb when you have a little PG that is best at driving it to the basket. There is a reason they turned it over 28 times the other night, because they are completely disjointed on offense and he is trying to get back to his hi-low stuff, but not sure it will fly when you have pretty much only one ball handler on the court. If he wants to play those two bigs together, good luck with that.
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AlabamaLane (November 8th, 2019, 1:15 pm)

learnin
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Post by learnin » November 7th, 2019, 4:08 pm

Took the words out of my mouth. The high- low stuff worked wonders, for Self, when he had three superb perimeter players. It remains to be seen if he can make it fly with this year’s crop.

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Post by learnin » November 7th, 2019, 4:13 pm

learnin wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 4:08 pm
Took the words out of my mouth. The high- low stuff worked wonders, for Self, when he had three superb perimeter players. It remains to be seen if he can make it fly with this year’s crop.
When I look at these pre season picks, it tells me a great deal about how some of these pundits would like for the season to shape up.

Yes, K-State lost three good players, but they bring back four players who were key, two years ago, in that elite 8 run. That doesn’t bring them, IMHO, a pre season ranking, but they should be receiving votes.

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Post by Highway26north » November 7th, 2019, 4:21 pm

Not going to go back and repeat all the posts but, as one of the glass-half-full guys on the board, I think Learnin is really nailing the prospects for the year from my perspective. If we had lights-out shooting and crappy D, the team would be projected much higher. Preseason pub is usually based on hyping the stars and in the media the stars are usually the scorers or the big men. Most of us pretty well agree that we'll be good defensively, but I think maybe we sell the value of that short. K State in recent years has proved over and over again that one half of good O and two halves of great D usually result in an unspectacular and somewhat low-scoring win. But a win nevertheless.
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tmcats (November 7th, 2019, 4:22 pm)

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Post by pulitzerdave » November 7th, 2019, 10:14 pm

ToledoCat#2 wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 12:31 pm
"The hopes of this team and it's success probably falls somewhere between those psychological polars of optimism and pessimism. Optimism leaves the door open for possibility, but a dash of pessimism provides a healthy balance on expectations."

Best said statement on this thread, PD.

thank you

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Post by pulitzerdave » November 7th, 2019, 10:28 pm

Gorhoops wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 1:16 pm
pulitzerdave wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 12:15 pm


This team will frustrating to watch at times. And fun to watch as well. We came into the season with uncertainty on many levels. How much would the freshman contribute? What would be their growth and improvement ratio? Who would take the reins of leadership? Could Sneed be a dominate scorer? How much would Sloan contribute? How much of an improvement could we expect from Levi? Who would be our reliable 3-point shooter? Would Mak play harder and make a significant difference? Was this group "coachable"? Lots, and lots of questions, ifs, and blanks to fill in. How in the world could anyone predict a high finish for this team with all of those factors weighing down the heavy burden of optimism? You can't!

Isn't it better, as fans, to lower expectations and over achieve, rather than do the opposite and be disappointed? That doesn't mean that you don't believe in the team, or that you think they are not capable of good things. It simply is a matter of taking measure of things. Success has a funny way of creating an ambience of invincibility. With each season, and each team, we must start over again.

The hopes of this team and it's success probably falls somewhere between those psychological polars of optimism and pessimism. Optimism leaves the door open for possibility, but a dash of pessimism provides a healthy balance on expectations.



My only question dave would be, and not necessarily to you but to those that routinely pick KSU low, is that, yes, KSU has a lot of questions to answer, but doesn't every other team in the conference have just as many questions?? Tech lost a lottery pick and a couple of other major guys, but no one is picking them 7 or 8th. Why is Texas picked ahead of us, they lost a lottery pick and have no real proof of winning DNA with Shaka. Why is WVU picked ahead of us, they were bad last year, I mean real bad, same with OSU, real bad. Why is ISU picked ahead of us, they lost some dang good guys too?

My point is, for some reason people that do these polls often put a whole lot more weight into KSU losing guys and tend to focus on all of the negatives, but for a number of other teams, they get the benefit that all of their new players will be great and there will be no growing pains. That is what I get upset about, Coach Weber, even though he has stuck two trophies in the case in the last seven years, doesn't get the same respect as guys that have never stuck a trophy in the case. Just gets a little aggravating after a while.
You make a good and valid point Gor. I don't know why some teams get the benefit of the doubt and we often don't. I don't study the teams as closely as some do, in terms of who's back, who been recruited and other such criteria. Maybe I should. I just look at the KSU team in front of me - knowing that some of these guys who were role players, now have to be leaders. I see a freshman class that will play major minutes, but I'm still uncertain of their talent and potential. I'm erring on the side of caution. We don't have two All-Conference players coming back as we did last year. We still don't know which players will show significant improvement, which will be necessary for us to get into the upper division. We just have a multitude of unknowns. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

I am excited about next year's incoming class, because I think it's our best in the Weber era. One more class like that, and we might be that rare team that reloads, rather than hopes for a good season.

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Post by Gorhoops » November 8th, 2019, 9:48 am

Absolutely dave, and the beauty is, our coaches can now really be focused on that next class. Sure, we may keep an eye on the current grad transfer class or juco impact guy or something if two of our current guys leave, which seems probable to me. But for the most part, our coaches can be out there focused on those high school juniors and get those relationships set.

I agree with you that I really just focus on our guys, I only know what the other teams have based on reading through Bilas' rankings. But generally, year after year, we know what level our team has to be at to win games in the Big 12. If our team is at that level, we have success, and if we aren't we don't, usually, not that hard to predict.

I think this team can get there, but to me the biggest thing will be whether Xavier Sneed quits worrying about the NBA and starts playing for the name on the front of his jersey, and I don't say that with the idea that X is selfish, but a lot of what I have read is about him being stressed about the process and he looks like he is playing stressed and feels he has to impress scouts. I hope they can make him understand the scouts are looking at alot of things and they know what to look for, so worrying about missing shots is silly because they know how you project at that level as a shooter, etc. Just relax, enjoy your senior year, and have fun playing. I think if X does that, we can be really good.
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AlabamaLane (November 8th, 2019, 1:16 pm)

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Post by pulitzerdave » November 8th, 2019, 4:30 pm

I think the scouts told X to round out his offensive game. The defense is there, and he'll be able to guard a 2 or 3 in the NBA. His rebounding is solid for a guy his size, and his jumping ability is on a par with an NBA player of his height. His ball handling is still suspect, and that's probably an area of concern for scouts. But there's a major weakness in his game that he may not be able to overcome to get to the next level.

The thing I've always noticed about X, and I've posted this several times, is that he's a very "upright" player. By that I mean that he doesn't have a lot of flexibility in his core muscles. A guy like X, who will have to play the 2 or 3 position in the NBA, will need to be able to get to the basket off the dribble in order to have defenders respect his outside shot. X is trying to do that more in the few games we've seen him this year. Scouts I'm CERTAIN have told him that this must improve. Occasionally he gets there, and sometimes it looks very difficult for him. Most good drivers of the basketball are able to get low, get their shoulders past the defender, and stay under control with this low posture. X can't do that. It's the only weakness, IMO, with his otherwise great athleticism.

Also, getting by college players occasionally will be much different than blowing by a good NBA defender. Will the rest of his game be good enough to ignore a major weakness? We'll see. But you're right, he appears to be playing right now for a second round draft selection. X needs to be X and that will make us better.

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Post by xtrawildcat » November 8th, 2019, 5:24 pm

Looked to me like Sneed played pretty dam good in our first game. Great and disruptive defense and good rebounding.
25 minutes. 6 rebounds, 2 steals, 0 turnovers. 4 for 11 and 9 points. If he had shot better than the 1 for 5 from three we would all be talking about the great game he had.

So after the game, Wyatt and Stan reported was still on the court working on his shot. Thats senior leadership that will be noticed by others on the team.

Also, as I said before, Sneed has lowered the start of his shot from behind the plane of his face to even with his forehead. Quicker and more compact. I beleive he will be more consistent this year as a result. Time will tell.

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Post by xtrawildcat » November 8th, 2019, 5:25 pm

Looked to me like Sneed played pretty dam good in our first game. Great and disruptive defense and good rebounding.
25 minutes. 6 rebounds, 2 steals, 0 turnovers. 4 for 11 and 9 points. If he had shot better than the 1 for 5 from three we would all be talking about the great game he had.

So after the game, Wyatt and Stan reported he was still on the court working on his shot. Thats senior leadership that will be noticed by others on the team.

Also, as I said before, Sneed has lowered the ball position at the start of his shot from behind the plane of his face to even with his forehead. Quicker and more compact. I beleive he will be more consistent this year as a result. Time will tell.

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