Why sit Barry with only 2 fouls?

[learnin]

The Sheep take another one to the chin and all we can do is utter: "What a game!" Zion Williamson runs his defender over in desperation and the zebras swallow their whistle. He missed the free throw and Duke player pushes UCF player in the back so he can get the offensive put back.

But, hey, how's your bracket doing?

[powercat95]

Good grief, I have not see anyone suggesting Weber be fired or any other such nonsense for benching Barry. I can love and support Weber (which I do) and still disagree with his decision. I think Barry should have sat for a minute or two and then played. He is a senior and would have been careful (the fact that he did not ever pick up a 3rd foul supports this position). I think we would have had the lead at half and he would have been more effective second half.

Others disagree which is fine-we will never know what would have happened. Anyway, this is a message board and we should be able to discuss this which I think was a crucial aspect to our loss. We certainly still had other chances to win the game.

I do agree that college basketball is corrupt as hell and certain programs cheat like crazy.

One improvement regarding fouls would be to allow players 6 fouls instead of 5 before being ejected.

[learnin]

Good grief, I have not see anyone suggesting Weber be fired or any other such nonsense for benching Barry. I can love and support Weber (which I do) and still disagree with his decision. I think Barry should have sat for a minute or two and then played. He is a senior and would have been careful (the fact that he did not ever pick up a 3rd foul supports this position). I think we would have had the lead at half and he would have been more effective second half.

Others disagree which is fine-we will never know what would have happened. Anyway, this is a message board and we should be able to discuss this which I think was a crucial aspect to our loss. We certainly still had other chances to win the game.

I do agree that college basketball is corrupt as hell and certain programs cheat like crazy.

One improvement regarding fouls would be to allow players 6 fouls instead of 5 before being ejected.

I'm not talking about the posters here, necessarily. I'm talking about many of the K-State fans who remained silent on twitter while we were winning the conference but came out of hiding to blast Weber on twitter after this loss.

[RichardZ]

"If Bruce knew that Barry would have finished with two fouls he probably would have played him.... unfortunately with 14 minutes left in the first half he didn’t know that. Goat if you do. Goat if you don’t."

If I am the UCF coach who on the KSU roster would he like to see sit down for a quarter of the game? Why, that would be the senior floor leader Barry Brown. We already had our best player out for the game and season and now we voluntarily sit Brown down and expect to 'keep it close'.

How many times has Brown fouled out in the last four years? I cant remember all games, but it seems like close to zero. It's not like he is Mowein who fouls a lot. If one thing Brown has shown is that he has basketball smarts. No guarantee that he wouldn't foul out, but it is unlikely.

It seems Weber's 'rule' of sitting a player after two fouls in the first half should be flexible to who the player is. Heck, Weber owes Brown that much respect. He carried the team to many victories during the year and was the vocal player coach before, during and after the games.

There was no tomorrow after this game. That was it for Barry's college basketball career and he was forced to sit, by his own coach, for a large chunk of the game. It appeared to me that Brown was begging to go back into the game. But a rule is a rule.

Of course, the shots weren't falling for the Cats in this most winnable game, but the loss, in my opinion was aided and abetted by Weber with his stupid 'rule'.

...With that I am done. The season is over. It was a good ride and a rather unexpected one with the first two losses in the Big 12 games. On to football!

[wazucat]

Seems to me an arbitrary policy "sit a player after 2 fouls in first half" should be open for discussion and critical comment.

Seems to me that is a one size fits all policy and therefore can be a BAD policy.

May be appropriate for a freshman big guy that is prone to freshman tendencies or a transfer who does not play defense the way the coach wants him too: but how about your trusted senior, who oh by the way is the Big 12 defensive player of the year, your spiritual leader in a lose and you're out game , maybe time to bend the arbitrary rule?

[Wyldkatz]

The hindsight is more than just the fact that Barry finished with 2 fouls. I cant fault Weber for his decision. We were leading the entire game with Barry on the bench, so why take the risk of him picking up another cheap foul or more when there is still another half to be played. It's easy to say hes a senior and would be smart about not fouling, but his 2nd foul wasnt a foul, but a flop. Who is to say they couldnt draw another one on him with another flop? The real issue here is the fact that once Barry did come back for the 2nd half, he provided basically nothing offensively. Is that because he lost all game rhythm, who knows. But, as a senior and your leading scorer, you gotta find a way to help your team. And launching 30ft 3 pointers was not it. Had Weber known Barry was gonna have one of the worst halves of his career if he sat him, perhaps he doesnt take him out of the first half. But no one on here expected Barry to come out in the 2nd half and give us 0 offensive production. This isnt on Weber. An average Barry even coming in cold would've beaten that UCI team in the 2nd half. We didnt get an average Barry, and no one can say they knew Barry was gonna be that off his game for sitting 16 minutes. It's a lot easier to critique after the fact.

[hilltopwildcat]

I go out with my guns blazing. NCAA tournament is gravy after winning a share of the title, nothing to lose, time to let it fly. I rather lose with Barry having fouled out than sitting half the game. In this tournament, you put your foot on the opponent's throat as early as you can. Our defense got sucky with him on the bench. We knew we would struggle offensively.

[ksume2000]

I'm not getting why people are acting like this is a policy that is unique to Weber. It's almost universal amongst college coaches. I can't count the number of times I've heard announcers say "well that's his second foul of the first half so coach XXX is probably going to pull him out until halftime." It's just the way most coaches do it. The idea is that if you have a guy "ahead of the game" in fouls and in danger of fouling out, you want to give him a chance to cool off and regroup. Also, you want to make sure he's available for crunch time, or at least keep some of his minutes until later in the game when they can be used to spell the other players instead of having him gone in the first half and make his sub play without a break.

The only time I have heard of a coach not doing this is when he is desperate, or when he has a stable full of stars who can play the rest of the game if needed, with no drop in production. Neither was the case in our game against UCI.

[Zoltar]

I have never heard of a coach doing this before. You take them out for a few minutes, make sure they understand the situation and then put them back into the game. Most coaches then pull the player with 1:30 to 2:00 minutes left in the half to make sure they don't pick up the 3rd as a cheap one late in the half.

This changes if they do get the 3rd and you must make coverage changes if they switch to go after the 3rd foul. Lose and out you do NOT sit the bench.

[kswildcat]

I have never heard of a coach doing this before. You take them out for a few minutes, make sure they understand the situation and then put them back into the game. Most coaches then pull the player with 1:30 to 2:00 minutes left in the half to make sure they don't pick up the 3rd as a cheap one late in the half.

This changes if they do get the 3rd and you must make coverage changes if they switch to go after the 3rd foul. Lose and out you do NOT sit the bench.

I agree! There may be a some coaches that will sit a player with 2 fouls the rest of the first half but 2/3 of the half? I don't know that I've seen that much if at all. Even if that is hard core policy there were several extenuating circumstances: A lose and the year's over tournament; He's your top uninjured offensive player; He's your best defensive player; He's a senior without a history of foul problems; He plays smart on defense; The underdog was coming back strong and closing the lead; He's a player the coach has trusted in the past. I'd rather play to win than become so cautious and play not to lose and end up losing anyway.