i just smile and shake my head ...

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
Gorhoops
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Re: i just smile and shake my head ...

Post by Gorhoops » February 8th, 2019, 1:34 pm

Honestly at this point it is probably just the A&M loss that is hurting us in the eyes of the voters, if for no other reason than the national media pays a bit more attention to the Big 12/SEC challenge than they do normal non con games or heck, even conference games. I am not sure most voters even realize we lost a game at Tulsa way back on Dec. 8th. But that A&M game is still a bit fresh in minds, and it was such a stink-pile that many of the national idiots only remember that loss and don't even realize we won at ISU or OU or whatever.

I will agree that we seem to play better when we appear to be slighted, although I'm not sure why, these guys should bring it no matter what (yes, I do believe the A&M loss was not an effort thing, more a focus thing).

pulitzerdave
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Post by pulitzerdave » February 8th, 2019, 1:43 pm

learnin wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm
pulitzerdave wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 12:49 pm
And yet none of the ranked teams have Tulsa/A&M type losses. And there are those on this forum who either want to ignore those losses, or greatly minimize their impact on ratings. These games are a stain on our record. They happened. Both with Dean Wade in the lineup. One of those losses came when this team was on a winning streak and riding high. That's the one that really gave pause to those ranking the best teams in the country. If as a team, players are going to prioritize games as to their importance, and which games to fully engage in, then they should be willing to accept the results of polls. Frankly, I don't think the players care that much about polls, only fans. There is no disrespect intended, as some are intimating, only puzzling questions about our play and focus against lesser teams. When it comes to ranking teams, every game counts and is taken into consideration. Those who poll are charged with examining the entire record of a team. One major glitch may be an anomaly, two is not easily dismissed.

IF we beat Baylor, we'll probably be ranked. But the journey to get there has been made more difficult by losing to teams who we should have beaten handily. As the expression goes, we've made our own bed ...

Dave, I do understand your reasoning when you bring up those two losses. My problem is that it doesn’t apply across the board. Michigan State just lost two games to very poor teams. Indiana had lost seven in a row when they knocked off the top 10 team on the top ten team’s home floor. If that wasn’t bad enough, Michigan State loses to weak and hapless Illinois. I guarantee you that Michigan State will not drop out of the top 15 because the experts will look at these as flukes...,things that happen to great teams once in a while. Kansas lost to easy pushover West Virginia and remained in the top 10. They’ll still be in top 20 after multiple losses on the road. North Carolina often lays some stinkers and remains highly ranked.

On the other hand, the experts won’t consider Iowa State’s loss, against Kansas State, as a bad loss. They won’t rank Kansas State, but you won’t lose much ground if Kansas State beats you.

We did play Tulsa and A&M at their place. While we should have won, I would say that both teams would be capable of taking out some top 20 teams on their home court on a given night. A&M did beat Alabama.

learnin, as you recall, we began to slide in the polls as our early season play showed nothing of a top 12 team. That's fair, because everyone on this forum agreed with that. Then we lost to Tulsa, and rightfully disappeared. Then Dean went down, and we lost two more. Pollsters don't care about injuries, so we were further buried. Then we hit the switch and started playing like everyone thought we would and went on a winning streak. But the climb back up is steep. Then, we layed another egg against a team with a losing record. Not only did they have a losing record, but they weren't even playing that well at home (where we lost). So ... I am not feeling indignation over these polls. They have been fair by certain standards. Others may take exception to them, but in the end it doesn't matter that much. In the end, all that matters going forward is winning the Big 12 Championship. That's what we should all be focused on. If we do that, then the polls will take care of themselves.

KsJoey
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Post by KsJoey » February 8th, 2019, 1:52 pm

I can think of several reasons why this team (that is red hot right now) and #1 in the Big12, is barely a Top25ish team in the polls.

- 2 Very Bad Losses
- Weak Non-Conf schedule. 1 Top 25 caliber team, which we also lost to
- Our non-conf was uninspiring. Rarely did you watch this team and think, dang that is a quality, veteran, Top25 caliber team.
- Offensive Stats were horrible. Not many teams are going to have our kind of offensive production and still be a good team, let alone, rated one.
- Injury to Dean Wade. The quality of our team took a big hit, not only on the court, but also in perception, when our best player was out with no sure timetable to return.
- Just 7 games ago, we were on the outside looking in, in regards to even being an NCAA tournament team. That's not that long ago that we were a "bad" team.

It was a lot to makeup, even with winning the last 7 conf games. Being around Top 25ish is about right IMO. Keeping winning and we'll keep moving up pretty steadily
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Lionheart
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Post by Lionheart » February 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

If West Virginia and Iowa State had not choked at the free throw line in the last minute of those games the Cats would have 2 more L. Let's take it and shut up about the rankings.

tmcats
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Pick 'Em

Post by tmcats » February 8th, 2019, 2:51 pm

Those losses are the reason we are not ranked.

show me a post where anyone argued that point.
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

learnin
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Post by learnin » February 8th, 2019, 2:52 pm

The OP referred to a CBS power ranking, which listed the top 20 teams. CBS informs us that the rankings are based upon consistency, efficiency, etc. This power ranking lists two Big XII teams, one of which is Texas Tech. I’m calling bull on this. Pure and simple bull. Kansas State has just reeled off seven straight conference victories. Four of these came against ranked teams. Three were on the road.

During this same period of time, Iowa State has lost three. Texas Tech has lost 4. If you can’t list Kansas State, please leave out Texas Tech if not Iowa State.
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hilltopwildcat
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Post by hilltopwildcat » February 8th, 2019, 3:35 pm

Gorhoops wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 1:34 pm
Honestly at this point it is probably just the A&M loss that is hurting us in the eyes of the voters, if for no other reason than the national media pays a bit more attention to the Big 12/SEC challenge than they do normal non con games or heck, even conference games. I am not sure most voters even realize we lost a game at Tulsa way back on Dec. 8th. But that A&M game is still a bit fresh in minds, and it was such a stink-pile that many of the national idiots only remember that loss and don't even realize we won at ISU or OU or whatever.

I will agree that we seem to play better when we appear to be slighted, although I'm not sure why, these guys should bring it no matter what (yes, I do believe the A&M loss was not an effort thing, more a focus thing).
+1. You control what you can control and that is basically yourself. When you point a finger at someone else, there's 3 pointing back at you. Our ranking, or lack of, is a direct result of our play.

ajcksu82
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Pick 'Em

Post by ajcksu82 » February 8th, 2019, 3:44 pm

Image

ToledoCat#2
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Post by ToledoCat#2 » February 8th, 2019, 3:54 pm

I love it when the Cats are playing hot and everyone is cool to them. We have a history of playing poorly when ranked and highly esteemed. Vice versa, our history shows we play best when unranked, dissed in every quarter, and we have a chip on our shoulder.

Just keep winning and everything takes care of itself. Here's a factoid to consider, if we don't lose one more game this season, we'll be league champs, B12 tourney champs, and nat'l champs.

No, I'm not predicting that, but it's still a true statement.
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Jax
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Post by Jax » February 8th, 2019, 4:35 pm

I agree with Toledo Cat. To quote Kenny Rogers, "You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table. There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done."
Last edited by Jax on February 8th, 2019, 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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