Is Tomlin really that good? We don't really know.

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xtrawildcat
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Re: Is Tomlin really that good? We don't really know.

Post by xtrawildcat » March 11th, 2023, 11:29 am

Puffdad wrote:
March 11th, 2023, 10:53 am
learnin wrote:
March 10th, 2023, 5:58 pm
Stimulating. I’ve often wondered what could be run in order to get this young man The ball in areas where he can utilize his skill. I would be interested in reading ideas from Posters with coaching experience
Modern basketball offenses operate pretty much the same way. (Which drives me nuts but oh well) Two guys go stand in the corner. Believe it or not that’s their job. If they’re good shooters it opens up the driving lanes for good guards to get it to the rim or kick out to the corner guys if their man steps in to help. Then the 3 guys in the middle play pick and roll or pick and pop or iso one on one, or run a horns set with two screeners, or simply just put their head down and go full bore. That’s what’s leading to Nowell’s turnovers.

Johnson and Tomlin are usually the corner guys. Therefore they get shots if their man goes to help or they go back door to the rim if their man doesn’t pay attention and see them. Alas the many lobs from Nowell to Johnson.

That’s a very simplified version of what 90% of the teams all across the nation in high school, college, and the NBA are doing. What the main idea is is to create a 3 on 3 type situation every possession. But it leads to the same 5 guys getting pretty much the same type of shots from the same area every game. And I hesitate to say this but it’s absolutely true Learnin. They are trying to force the defense into a triangle and two defense which creates a lot more open floor spacing for the offense to score in. It’s rather sad but simple. But it’s the basis and fad for pretty much everybody.
Good post. And it is what everybody is doing.
But also a lot of nuance in how different players and teams run it depending on their skills.

I was surprised last night that Texas threw the ball into their post players and let them make post moves. It was effective. Texas beat us by throwing the ball to Bishop and having him make a post move to beat Iyiola.

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Post by katlander » March 11th, 2023, 12:35 pm

The game has changed/evolved. Seems more about the Jimmys and Joes than coaching. Good coaching still matters but recruiting is the key.

As for Quan I think he is getting better. I don't know how good his coaches have been to this point. I think a key question for next year is what areas of his game we want him to improve then focus on those. On offense I would like to see him develop a hook shot he could use from 10ft. and closer. I have seen him make some midrange jumpers so he may be working on that. Needs to improve his three and is looking better there. Probably needs to get stronger but impresses me how he holds his own and how strong he appears to be despite his long thin physique. He is so slithery quick around the hoop that he is tough to stop. We need to exploit that strong aspect of his game. He reminds me a little of the Grant twins, Horace and Harvey. He may be wise to model his game largely after theirs.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=688f46ec ... JUkU&ntb=1

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Post by pharaohcat » March 11th, 2023, 2:12 pm

JUCO players normally make a big jump in their 2nd year. With Tomlin's lack of experience I hope the jump is larger. :thumbsup:

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Post by xtrawildcat » March 11th, 2023, 2:24 pm

pharaohcat wrote:
March 11th, 2023, 2:12 pm
JUCO players normally make a big jump in their 2nd year. With Tomlin's lack of experience I hope the jump is larger. :thumbsup:
Maybe his lack of experience is a benefit. He played lots of ball, just not with coaches.
So no AAU coaches. And so he had three years. Of high level juco coaching and now 8 months at KState.
In mt opinion, juco coaching and competition trumps AAU coaching.
Last edited by xtrawildcat on March 11th, 2023, 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by pharaohcat » March 11th, 2023, 2:30 pm

I agree about AAU coaching being hit or miss, still JUCO players do make a jump in their 2nd year, and I hope Tomlin does better next year.

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Post by xtrawildcat » March 11th, 2023, 3:05 pm

pharaohcat wrote:
March 11th, 2023, 2:30 pm
I agree about AAU coaching being hit or miss, still JUCO players do make a jump in their 2nd year, and I hope Tomlin does better next year.
Agreed.
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Post by SCKSCat » March 19th, 2023, 8:41 pm

Today he was good. Tang after the Montana State game said if Tomlin could keep from getting fouls and play 30 minutes, we be a very good team.
3 fouls, 30 minutes
12.pts., 6 rebounds
His defense was awesome. 4 blocks including 1 against Oscar T. And he was a pest
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Post by tmcats » March 20th, 2023, 10:54 am

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Post by Highway26north » March 20th, 2023, 4:20 pm

To me the biggest point of the game was that while Johnson was off (you'd think that alone would doom the effort) a LOT of other guys had big
time moments here and there . And once you have one of those moments it makes it a lot more likely that you'll have more down the road. It's a way of kind of seeing yourself as being the guy to step up. For that reason I was really glad to see Ish launch that 3. He took ownership.

Nowell of course made up a huge amount of whatever slack there was, but I can't help but think that a better coach than Cal could have figured out ways to double or help or encircle or do some damn thing to keep Nowell from just running in and out and in between and launching everything from every angle. Time to let somebody else beat you. If Nowell ends up with 30 assists and you lose, so be it! I don't recall EVER seeing Nowell getting that amount of penetration and dish against any opponent all year--so why against the great Cal? The answer is suggested in the question. And then he has the gall to do the "little kid" routine postgame. NIL is going to turn them into an ordinary program and they already have an ordinary coach.
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Post by Kralicek » March 20th, 2023, 6:01 pm

Highway26north wrote:
March 20th, 2023, 4:20 pm
To me the biggest point of the game was that while Johnson was off (you'd think that alone would doom the effort) a LOT of other guys had big
time moments here and there . And once you have one of those moments it makes it a lot more likely that you'll have more down the road. It's a way of kind of seeing yourself as being the guy to step up. For that reason I was really glad to see Ish launch that 3. He took ownership.

Nowell of course made up a huge amount of whatever slack there was, but I can't help but think that a better coach than Cal could have figured out ways to double or help or encircle or do some damn thing to keep Nowell from just running in and out and in between and launching everything from every angle. Time to let somebody else beat you. If Nowell ends up with 30 assists and you lose, so be it! I don't recall EVER seeing Nowell getting that amount of penetration and dish against any opponent all year--so why against the great Cal? The answer is suggested in the question. And then he has the gall to do the "little kid" routine postgame. NIL is going to turn them into an ordinary program and they already have an ordinary coach.
Great post, I have always thought Cal's success was in direct relation to his cheating. I agree the NIL may balance out the cheaters at the top.
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