FB Players speaking out against KSU Student

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learnin
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Re: FB Players speaking out against KSU Student

Post by learnin » June 30th, 2020, 11:27 am

kstatefan1863 wrote:
June 28th, 2020, 11:11 pm
wild@nite wrote:
June 28th, 2020, 10:56 pm


I think you're missing the point. Nobody is saying white privilege doesn't exist. What he is saying is the platform and tactics used by these athletes was wrong. I agree. That's all. Furthermore, it will go a long way in getting racism under control when groups like BLM have leadership that is constructive. Plenty of in their spokespeople, but that goes unsaid.

We all know the history of racism, but another chapter is being written right under your nose. Racism exists in all cultures. Not just white. Whites absolutely have had it easier, historically, but launching revenge tactics on many innocent people is OK? It sure seems that way and you will find it will be counterproductuve.

Racism must be fought with brains, not social media and group demands that violate constitutional rights.

A national curriculum would be a good start and also more people calling for this idiotic group rage to end. It will backfire.
I didn't watch the video, because I've seen this guy's work before. He's been trying to disprove that white privilege exists (in the past) which is what I was referring to. Sorry for the confusion. I'm white, but growing up in KCMO put things in perspective for me. I do have to say I'm not very familiar with the BLM leadership, and what they are in need of. I do realize that society has failed African American's and other people of color in this country, and what we're seeing today is them being tired of being ignored.

In reference to the constitutional rights, did you see the article I posted earlier? The players acknowledged that they met with coaches, administrators, and students and learned more about the 1st amendment, and understand they cannot violate that. I truly think K-State is going to do this the right way.

The group rage is a symptom of a broken system. People weren't being heard before. We say "you need to go through the proper channels" but that hasn't worked for them. I hated seeing this at my university at first too, but then I realized that this is a great opportunity for K-State to show people how to work together and make things right.

My guess is that K-State has privately told the twitter kid that his remarks are unacceptable, but they aren't going to get rid of him. They'll probably work with the players and student groups to create a policy that works for everyone. I think everyone will learn a lot in the process.

You're absolutely right. Thank you for standing up. I'm white also, but I'm getting sick of white people telling black people to go through proper channels. I wonder if there were any colonists telling the tea party rioters to go through proper channels? Look, people working for an end to racism, have been going through proper channels for decades, but racism still exists. Right after Floyd was murdered, I heard a professional remark: "Effing Ni_ _ _ _!"

During the late 60's, there were a lot of people claiming that Viet Nam protesters were commies and they deplored their protesting. These used the excesses, of some protestors, as means to attack the movement. Yes, there were some who went too far, but the Viet Nam protests forced our government to get out of Nam earlier than they ever would have and this helped save the lives of countless Americans and Vietnamese. I doubt
if any one of those protestors, back then, ever took up a Communist party flag.

These things will sort themselves out and Kansas State University will be better in the future because of the present situation.

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WIldWIllieCat
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Post by WIldWIllieCat » June 30th, 2020, 11:28 am

This is the Booker T. Washington vs WEB Du Bois debate all over again...
"The peculiar office of a demagogue is to advance his own interests, by affecting a deep devotion to the interests of the people. .”

ToledoCat#3
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Post by ToledoCat#3 » June 30th, 2020, 11:29 am

I do not feel responsible for the breakdown of the African American family. If the stats I hear are correct, 70% of black children born do not have a father figure to help raise them. If black parents don't make their children go to school every day, it's not the fault of whites.

As a young man in the 1960s, I worked one week with a youth program in the inner city of Oklahoma City. All the participants were black. All the adult leaders were white. It was in a community center and every day while white adults brought a camp program to black kids, I saw adult black men playing cards and pool across the hall. Not once did they lift a finger to assist or lead, nor to even offer up a "thank you." Specifics like that are not the fault of whites IMHO.

kstatefan1863
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Post by kstatefan1863 » June 30th, 2020, 11:34 am

wild@nite wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 11:14 am
kstatefan1863 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 10:43 am


While there are some programs and opportunities for people of color to receive an education, it doesn't mean they have the opportunities to get to that point. Many of them live in areas with severely underfunded schools, and they can't get the education needed to get to that point. Not to mention the dangers of where they live, the racism they have to deal with throughout their lives (I've seem some ignorant posts that say don't see racism. It's probably because most people don't see it unless it's happening to them), the lack of healthcare, and the list goes on. They aren't blaming the entire white race, as you suggested, is that what you really think? They are blaming the system. They are upset that their people are being disproportionately murdered by the people that are here to protect them. I hope that isn't ok with any of you. With all due respect, I feel like some white people just want to blame them and make them feel like lazy criminals, when really these white people are just lacking the perspective it takes to have empathy for their neighbors that has been wronged for far too long. To me, by trying to shift the blame on them, and accusing them of blaming an entire race, just playing a victim card, which you're trying to accuse them of. That line of thinking is lazy, and uninspiring.
I say BS. Most have the opportunity if the family culture were there to support the opportunity. Very few don't have that opportunity. Is it equal to the opportunity that most whites have? No, and that is a problem, I agree, but I see far too many not taking advantage of opportunity, just as some poor whites, then blaming someone else for their crappy life.

Sorry, doesnt fly. I got no scholarships. My parents made just enough so I couldn't get grants, so I worked and paid off loans to get through.

Community colleges and Tech schools have programs that dont require extensive ACT scores or other admission requirements. What, exactly is holding them back here?
You're right, some of them don't have the best family support. That's not the only reason though. Most school districts are paid for by property taxes, and in those areas there aren't many taxes to be collected. The schools are so bad that in many of those areas the schools aren't even accredited by the state. And if they are, they are barely getting by. KCMO recently got their accreditation back, but I think they're still on probation. The point is, they don't have all the things your schools probably had. Just because some schools don't require exams to get in, doesn't mean that they acquired the skills needed to succeed in those schools throughout their education.

Look, I didn't get any scholarships either, and I'm still paying off my student loans. My family was lower middle class growing up, so they weren't able to help me pay for everything, but they did help me with some of my living expenses while I was at school. Just because our path doesn't match theirs doesn't mean they don't want to take advantage of opportunities though. I'm not saying you should feel like you're to blame for them not getting ahead. I do think we should all look closer at their situation though to see how we can fix this, and not just blame them for everything.

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Post by stlcatfan » June 30th, 2020, 11:38 am

ToledoCat#3 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 11:29 am
I do not feel responsible for the breakdown of the African American family. If the stats I hear are correct, 70% of black children born do not have a father figure to help raise them. If black parents don't make their children go to school every day, it's not the fault of whites.

As a young man in the 1960s, I worked one week with a youth program in the inner city of Oklahoma City. All the participants were black. All the adult leaders were white. It was in a community center and every day while white adults brought a camp program to black kids, I saw adult black men playing cards and pool across the hall. Not once did they lift a finger to assist or lead, nor to even offer up a "thank you." Specifics like that are not the fault of whites IMHO.
You made me think of a scene in a movie I saw from years ago (I think it was Spike Lee's, "Do the Right Thing"). The scene involved a Korean husband and wife who operated a fruit and vegetable stand in a predominately Black neighborhood. The couple's business was successful, but drew the ire of some older Black men watching them do business. One of them said something to the effect of, "It's a damn shame. We've been here 300 hundred years, yet they're three years off the boat and have a thriving business." I wanted to yell, "Hello!" at the screen. I was surprised that Spike put that scene in the movie, but it made a good point. We can complain. Or we can take responsibility for our own actions.

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MajorAppleCat
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Post by MajorAppleCat » June 30th, 2020, 12:38 pm

stlcatfan wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 11:38 am
ToledoCat#3 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 11:29 am
I do not feel responsible for the breakdown of the African American family. If the stats I hear are correct, 70% of black children born do not have a father figure to help raise them. If black parents don't make their children go to school every day, it's not the fault of whites.

As a young man in the 1960s, I worked one week with a youth program in the inner city of Oklahoma City. All the participants were black. All the adult leaders were white. It was in a community center and every day while white adults brought a camp program to black kids, I saw adult black men playing cards and pool across the hall. Not once did they lift a finger to assist or lead, nor to even offer up a "thank you." Specifics like that are not the fault of whites IMHO.
You made me think of a scene in a movie I saw from years ago (I think it was Spike Lee's, "Do the Right Thing"). The scene involved a Korean husband and wife who operated a fruit and vegetable stand in a predominately Black neighborhood. The couple's business was successful, but drew the ire of some older Black men watching them do business. One of them said something to the effect of, "It's a damn shame. We've been here 300 hundred years, yet they're three years off the boat and have a thriving business." I wanted to yell, "Hello!" at the screen. I was surprised that Spike put that scene in the movie, but it made a good point. We can complain. Or we can take responsibility for our own actions.
Agree.
"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." Alexis de Tocqueville

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Pick 'Em

Post by wild@nite » June 30th, 2020, 12:47 pm

kstatefan1863 said.... "That's not the only reason though."

Nobody is saying thats the only reason, but it is part of the reason and is being ignored. All Im saying is it isn't a one way street were traveling, but when when the two way is pointed out, you get called racist and pressured to shut up. This is what theyre fighting, yet seem to want to implement the same tactic.

This will be my last comment on this today and I've said this before. The movement needs better leadership. They have our ear, now stop being hypocritical and help with solutions. The ones with the "burn it down" mentality speaking for this movement are hurting. They want us to listen, but people aren't going to listen to the threatening messages. Human nature. Its a huge turnoff.

Organize constructive leadership and let's get this done together. We get it, they are hurting. Help yourselves by helping us help you, as opposed to continuing the destructive and counterpriductive tactics. Maybe that was needed at first. That has passed. The longer this mentality persists, the higher the risk of losing the productive platform.

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Post by kstatefan1863 » June 30th, 2020, 2:47 pm

Wow! Now these are students, coaches, and a University to be proud of!

https://themercury.com/k_state_sports/i ... d25b9.html

This University is different than many others. They understand that they may not have all the facts, and they decided to listen, educate themselves on the struggles of other populations, and they're working on creating change. This is so much more productive than trying to find reasons treat them like an angry mob with no justification for wanting to be treated equally.

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WIldWIllieCat
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Post by WIldWIllieCat » June 30th, 2020, 3:05 pm

excellent article

this quote by Trotter really caught my attention:

“That’s something that I strive to understand more, the things that they go through. Being as close as I am to them and them being my teammates, their problems are my problems. I want to go through everything that they go through with them, support them.”
"The peculiar office of a demagogue is to advance his own interests, by affecting a deep devotion to the interests of the people. .”

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Post by ToledoCat#3 » June 30th, 2020, 3:05 pm

The original "demand or else" stance of players I do not agree with. Other than that, I think the coaches, administrators and players may be developing an "equality climate" within the athletics department that is commendable. I certainly hope so. For sure, the harshness of the conversation has lessened considerably.

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