ISU’s plan for attending home football games

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tmcats
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Re: ISU’s plan for attending home football games

Post by tmcats » May 29th, 2020, 11:26 am

Hypeman wrote:
May 28th, 2020, 11:01 pm
tmcats wrote:
May 28th, 2020, 8:07 pm


the state sends zero to k-state athletics.

k-state athletics is blended component unit of kansas state university. its financials are separate. if the state has sent millions to k-state athletics, it was before john currie's time. i would not be surprised that happened under president wefald but don't know one way or the other. if you have evidence, post it.

athletics does not charge royalties to the university (your words, not mine) for use of the powercat. the university has trademarked the powercat and charges royalties for its use by third parties like high schools or nike. 7% goes to the originator, a former professor of art named bookwalter. the revenue collected minus costs go to athletic scholarships.

the sports complex has been built over a period of time. it's not valued at anything approaching a billion dollars - presently $240 million. bramlage was financed with student fees and private donations. since john currie became a.d., renovations like the west stadium center and additions like the basketball training facility have been financed with private donations and department revenue.

and finally, i don't believe you know the meaning of the term 'cash cow' given how you used it. i'm sure you're quickly looking it up though.
TM I think you are again talking out the wrong end as if you know things.

We’re you a professor on campus around 2010 when when destroyed all items with the powercat logo? As part of the rebranding, we were required to cease using the powercat or pay the same fee to athletics as an outsider would. That still exists today. I’ve tried to use the powercat for student club activities and have been forced to cease as recent as two years ago.
Athletics, to the best of my knowledge, does not pay a royalty to the university for use of the university name. Interestingly the money flows one way.

I’m not looking at the financials but I don’t need to in order to guess correctly that you are looking at a balance sheet and assuming an historical cost of 240 million is the value of the athletics complex that athletics uses rent free. I’m not going give you another lesson in reading financial data and the limitations of that data like I did a month or so ago because I felt badly for doing so in this public forum, and because you are a business professor. Sorry about that. But, you might grab your textbook and look up the limitations of balance sheets and relying on the data on that balance sheet for valuation purposes. Historical cost is not indicative of current value.

I use the term cash cow because you have been claiming for as long as I’ve been on this site that the superior management in athletics has them rolling in dough. If that’s the case, great! Time to share some with the players if their main purpose is show up and generate money. That’s where this whole conversation started by the way.
correct $240 million is the asset value. i'm not sure how else one values assets other than using current accounting principles. but let's try your method:

the original cost of ksu stadium was $1.6 million perhaps that's the number you'd like to use, 1968 capital investment.
the original cost of bramlage was $17.5 million, 1988
the original cost of ahearn was $2.0 million, 1950

neither the stadium nor the octagon were built with state funds but rather financed with athletic department income, student fees, and private donations. and using that costing method - because you don't like modern accounting principles - that gets us to $21.1 million or $978.9 million short of your billion dollars facility investment claim above.
Why is there something rather than nothing?

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Post by Hypeman » May 29th, 2020, 12:42 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 29th, 2020, 11:26 am
Hypeman wrote:
May 28th, 2020, 11:01 pm


TM I think you are again talking out the wrong end as if you know things.

We’re you a professor on campus around 2010 when when destroyed all items with the powercat logo? As part of the rebranding, we were required to cease using the powercat or pay the same fee to athletics as an outsider would. That still exists today. I’ve tried to use the powercat for student club activities and have been forced to cease as recent as two years ago.
Athletics, to the best of my knowledge, does not pay a royalty to the university for use of the university name. Interestingly the money flows one way.

I’m not looking at the financials but I don’t need to in order to guess correctly that you are looking at a balance sheet and assuming an historical cost of 240 million is the value of the athletics complex that athletics uses rent free. I’m not going give you another lesson in reading financial data and the limitations of that data like I did a month or so ago because I felt badly for doing so in this public forum, and because you are a business professor. Sorry about that. But, you might grab your textbook and look up the limitations of balance sheets and relying on the data on that balance sheet for valuation purposes. Historical cost is not indicative of current value.

I use the term cash cow because you have been claiming for as long as I’ve been on this site that the superior management in athletics has them rolling in dough. If that’s the case, great! Time to share some with the players if their main purpose is show up and generate money. That’s where this whole conversation started by the way.
correct $240 million is the asset value. i'm not sure how else one values assets other than using current accounting principles. but let's try your method:

the original cost of ksu stadium was $1.6 million perhaps that's the number you'd like to use, 1968 capital investment.
the original cost of bramlage was $17.5 million, 1988
the original cost of ahearn was $2.0 million, 1950

neither the stadium nor the octagon were built with state funds but rather financed with athletic department income, student fees, and private donations. and using that costing method - because you don't like modern accounting principles - that gets us to $21.1 million or $978.9 million short of your billion dollars facility investment claim above.
TM, Wow ... you couldn’t leave it alone. It looks like it is time for a lesson again. I apologize in advance.

Generally accepted accounting principles record assets at historical cost. I’m looking at the audit report now and the cost is $260 million. That includes Bram at 17 million and the stadium at 1.7 assuming what you said is correct. That isn’t the current value of Bram. It’s the historical cost. Accountants and finance people don’t use that value to make current decisions. You learn this in Acctg 101 on the first day.

Now let me explain in simpler terms for you. Let’s say you bought your house in 1980 for $20k. That house might be worth $200k or even much more now. And if you rented it out you would be renting it at current market rates, not a rate based on a $20k cost 40 years ago. However, if you followed generally accepted accounting principles, as businesses do, you would record that house at a cost of $20k when calculating your net worth. Thank goodness your personal banker doesn’t use GAAP or your debt to asset ratio would be in the toilet.

Now please stop pretending you know anything about accounting and finance when you obviously don’t.

You actually teach in the business school? I sure hope is not accounting or finance. Even then, everyone in business should understand a financial statement.

Current market value of the athletics complex is probably close to a billion dollars. That’s a lot of assets to use rent free. It would be like you or I living in a million dollar home rent free. Do you know any landlords will to offer that rate?

Next ...

tmcats
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Post by tmcats » May 29th, 2020, 1:00 pm

okay, we will take those investments and convert them to current (2020) dollars. maybe that will work in your favor.

the 1968 original cost of ksu stadium was $1.6 million in 2020 dollars that equates to $11.6 million
the 1988 cost of bramlage was $17.5 million $128.9 in 2020 dollars
the 1950 original cost of ahearn was $2.0 million, $14.7 million in 2020 dollars

that equates to $155.2 million in 2020 dollars. you're still $850 million short of your billion-dollars facility cost using current dollar valuations. so, that doesn't work either. what kind of costing would you like to do since current accounting isn't sufficient and current dollars don't work either? scramble quickly now, we're all waiting for your you next googled claim.

by the way, none of that is state tax dollars as you alluded to. so, there is that little fact you have to deal with as well.

Why is there something rather than nothing?

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Post by Hypeman » May 29th, 2020, 1:14 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 29th, 2020, 1:00 pm
okay, we will take those investments and convert them to current (2020) dollars. maybe that will work in your favor.

the 1968 original cost of ksu stadium was $1.6 million in 2020 dollars that equates to $11.6 million
the 1988 cost of bramlage was $17.5 million $128.9 in 2020 dollars
the 1950 original cost of ahearn was $2.0 million, $14.7 million in 2020 dollars

that equates to $155.2 million in 2020 dollars. you're still $850 million short of your billion-dollars facility cost using current dollar valuations. so, that doesn't work either. what kind of costing would you like to do since current accounting isn't sufficient and current dollars don't work either? scramble quickly now, we're all waiting for your you next googled claim.

by the way, none of that is state tax dollars as you alluded to. so, there is that little fact you have to deal with as well.

Dude ... the press box was 80 million. By your conversion the press box is worth 8 times the value of an entire stadium. You might need 6th grade math, not a refresher on accounting and finance.

As an example of current market value, UT’s new b-ball arena will cost $350 million. It’s probably pretty spectacular, but it’s quite a bit smaller than Bram.

Again, the more you respond on financial related issues, the more I’m going to give you the beat down. Stick to something you know better like sucking up to athletics administrators.

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Post by tmcats » May 29th, 2020, 1:28 pm

no,no, dude, you're not going to change the goalposts to midfield now. here's your original post:

Over the years the state has sent tens of millions directly to KSU athletics in subsidy and to my knowledge, they use the name Kansas State University free of charge while charging royalties to the University for use of the powercat, free use of a billion dollar sports complex, student activity and ticket fees .... And who picks up the tab when they run short? which they may soon start doing again. A couple years off direct subsidy and now your a cash cow. Get real.


you can't now change your argument and from state aid facilities to those bought and paid for by contributions and athletics revenue, which, by the way, paid for that 'press box,' the vanier football complex, the basketball training facility, the baseball field renovation, the soccer complex, et al.
Why is there something rather than nothing?

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Post by Hypeman » May 29th, 2020, 1:52 pm

tmcats wrote:
May 29th, 2020, 1:28 pm
no,no, dude, you're not going to change the goalposts to midfield now. here's your original post:

Over the years the state has sent tens of millions directly to KSU athletics in subsidy and to my knowledge, they use the name Kansas State University free of charge while charging royalties to the University for use of the powercat, free use of a billion dollar sports complex, student activity and ticket fees .... And who picks up the tab when they run short? which they may soon start doing again. A couple years off direct subsidy and now your a cash cow. Get real.


you can't now change your argument and from state aid facilities to those bought and paid for by contributions and athletics revenue, which, by the way, paid for that 'press box,' the vanier football complex, the basketball training facility, the baseball field renovation, the soccer complex, et al.
Those are indeed “parts” of the complex. The remainder ... funded by various sources including student fees and the state and all owned by the state. Now adding a few leasehold improvements doesn’t usually get you out of paying rent, unless your KSU athletics.

I’ll be back in a minute. I need to tee off.

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Post by AJcat7755 » May 29th, 2020, 1:59 pm

hilltopwildcat wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 9:59 pm
AJcat7755 wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 1:27 pm
I'm not paying anything past the minimum until we know what the season entails. As of now, you only have to pay $25 by June 1st. After the 19th, when all the seat selections are done, they are hoping to have an announcement of what will happen with the season. Likewise, the remaining 75% of your Ahearn donations are not due until August 31st. In order to prevent any complications with returns, I'm not going to give them money until we know what happens with the season. My concern is with the wording of their legal information that "return packages" will be done in case their isn't football and although Ahearn goes to more then football, we all know we are paying it to get football tickets so I'm not going to give if their isn't a football season that requires me to.
Not looking for an argument just some clarification. As usual, the payment plans between Ahearn Fund and tickets and their deadlines just confuse the s**t out of me so I called. Kid told me Ahearn Fund was due June 30 and tickets could be paid for any time up until the first game. Unless I screwed up what I was writing down.
It confuses me as well so I also called the ticket office.

For the tickets, they didn't know what the situation would be. They told me after seat selection was done on the 19th, they are hoping to have a better idea on what will happen with the season and will announce new ticket payment plans. If you log in right now, there are no plans, just if you wanted to pay a lump sum. You still have to pay the $25 for tickets to be part of seat selection though, and that has to be by June 1st.

For Ahearn, it says on my payment plan under Active Pledges:

2020 Football Priority Seating
Deadline: August 31, 2020

Now I have already paid 25% of that if that matters at all. But I'm going by that date for my plan. June 15th used to be the regular day, June 30th is the end of the fiscal year, which is why this date is being brought up. I'll have to call the Ahearn people directly, but their website now says differently.
Last edited by AJcat7755 on May 29th, 2020, 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by AJcat7755 » May 29th, 2020, 2:05 pm

Hypeman wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 10:11 pm
hilltopwildcat wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 9:59 pm


Not looking for an argument just some clarification. As usual, the payment plans between Ahearn Fund and tickets and their deadlines just confuse the s**t out of me so I called. Kid told me Ahearn Fund was due June 30 and tickets could be paid for any time up until the first game. Unless I screwed up what I was writing down.
I suspect you won’t get your so called “donation” back, if you did it would be tied to the ticket price and hence not actually a donation and not tax deductible. Using that tax deductible status for the cost of tickets is vital to athletics.
As stated previously, it is no longer tax deductible as of 2+ years ago.

http://ahearnfund.com/giving/taxinfo/

"Prior to calendar year 2018, the IRS Code Section 170(I) allowed for 80% of a donation for seating at an athletic event to be tax deductible. If you refer to Section 1306 of the new tax plan, you will find that this deduction will no longer be permissible beginning January 1, 2018. "

How that factors into getting it back or not is unknown, but it is no longer consider a tax deductible donation and even says my pledge is tied to "2020 Football Priority Seating"

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Post by Hypeman » May 29th, 2020, 2:15 pm

AJcat7755 wrote:
May 29th, 2020, 2:05 pm
Hypeman wrote:
May 27th, 2020, 10:11 pm


I suspect you won’t get your so called “donation” back, if you did it would be tied to the ticket price and hence not actually a donation and not tax deductible. Using that tax deductible status for the cost of tickets is vital to athletics.
As stated previously, it is no longer tax deductible as of 2+ years ago.

http://ahearnfund.com/giving/taxinfo/

"Prior to calendar year 2018, the IRS Code Section 170(I) allowed for 80% of a donation for seating at an athletic event to be tax deductible. If you refer to Section 1306 of the new tax plan, you will find that this deduction will no longer be permissible beginning January 1, 2018. "

How that factors into getting it back or not is unknown, but it is no longer consider a tax deductible donation and even says my pledge is tied to "2020 Football Priority Seating"
Thanks. I didn’t know that.

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