Facilities

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Hypeman
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Re: Facilities

Post by Hypeman » February 27th, 2020, 8:12 am

ToledoCat#2 wrote:
February 26th, 2020, 11:13 am
What is the obstacle for KSU having a portion of its curriculum dedicated to "tech/hand-on" technology degrees?

In essence, what can't K-State essentially have a junior college on its main campus.

I think KSU has recently hired 3 top administrators pretty much to boost enrollment, plus a plethora of "diversification" administrators.
The alternate to those expensive hirings was to make KSU degrees cost less.
+++++++==
Even I didn't know that you could get a degree in Queer Studies at my alma mater. What the hell kind of work will you do with that degree? Someone please explain and perhaps I'll retract my negative commentary.
There are not just three top administrators. In my college we now have new administrators and new assistant administrators to do the administrative work for the administrators. It’s as bad as athletics.

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Post by hilltopwildcat » February 27th, 2020, 8:30 am

Hype, what you're saying is very, very interesting. As you are the one making these claims and seem to know where this information is available, it would be much quicker if you just linked this instead of the rest of us having to run a search.

1 of our sons had a 31 on his ACT and qualified for half off tuition as an out of state student at KSU. 1 of our other sons got a 35 3 times and was going for 4 and we just said stop. The other son was in the 20's and hopelessly average, what a shame, not. No coaching or tutors though, a rural school education. And believe me, I was pretty upset at the way our school was and is still run.

I think there's an entirely different mindset between rural and urban. Rural kids are more into agriculture, hunting, mechanics, etc. We don't have the daily exposure to the variety of occupations in urban areas so other than being a doctor or lawyer, those careers aren't pushed. Until something is done to move or keep jobs in rural areas, I see no reason why anything will change. Some of those office and service jobs could be moved to rural areas and into existing facilities rather than the slow creep of suburban expansion. Speedy, consistent internet would be a good start but this is the latest boondoggle where "entrepreneurs" are snatching up millions and billions of government grant dollars to add service to places that already have high-speed internet.

And I started this thread on facilities.

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Post by ToledoCat#2 » February 27th, 2020, 10:48 am

This has been/is a very good discussion about KSU. The best I've witnessed and participated in.

The slow decay, demise of rural America falla largely at the feet of land-grant universities in general, at KSU's feet specifically in KS. Around 50 years ago, KSU made a decision to go "big time" and try to compete in the liberal arts with KU -- and to largely sideline it's emphasis in ag, engineering and science.

No emphasis was ever put on what it takes to maintain a vibrant rural economy -- PROFITABLE AGRICULTURE, maximum disposable income per acre. Instead, the emphasis was put on MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY IN AG PRODUCTION. The role of marketing in profit was ignored. That spelled the doom for rural population and, hence, an ever-diminishing pool of rural students naturally attracted to KSU.

Proof that KSU still undervalues Agriculture is Waters Hall. It's old, decrepit, and has been badly in need of renovation for decades. KSU's built new science buildings, new chemistry buildings, a new College of Business building, renovated Seaton Hall -- yet the center of agriculture at KSU languishes.

If KSU had been forward-looking in the 1990s, it would have taken the national lead in developing ways to merchandise (not market) agricultural commodities on the internet. KSU could have become the E-Bay of agriculture and it's financial future secured.

Sad, and the piper is being paid in a financial crisis and a trend toward declining enrollment.
Last edited by ToledoCat#2 on February 28th, 2020, 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hypeman
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Post by Hypeman » February 27th, 2020, 1:12 pm

hilltopwildcat wrote:
February 27th, 2020, 8:30 am
Hype, what you're saying is very, very interesting. As you are the one making these claims and seem to know where this information is available, it would be much quicker if you just linked this instead of the rest of us having to run a search.

1 of our sons had a 31 on his ACT and qualified for half off tuition as an out of state student at KSU. 1 of our other sons got a 35 3 times and was going for 4 and we just said stop. The other son was in the 20's and hopelessly average, what a shame, not. No coaching or tutors though, a rural school education. And believe me, I was pretty upset at the way our school was and is still run.

I think there's an entirely different mindset between rural and urban. Rural kids are more into agriculture, hunting, mechanics, etc. We don't have the daily exposure to the variety of occupations in urban areas so other than being a doctor or lawyer, those careers aren't pushed. Until something is done to move or keep jobs in rural areas, I see no reason why anything will change. Some of those office and service jobs could be moved to rural areas and into existing facilities rather than the slow creep of suburban expansion. Speedy, consistent internet would be a good start but this is the latest boondoggle where "entrepreneurs" are snatching up millions and billions of government grant dollars to add service to places that already have high-speed internet.

And I started this thread on facilities.
I’ll dig up some of the research on ACT and student success and socioeconomics and link some of it. It’s interesting. Especially if you have a genuine concern about the university, kids, and education.

From what I know, your kids don’t sound like the norm. Congratulations. Most rural kids, broadly speaking, are disadvantaged, and don’t qualify for the scholarships like the suburban kids do. The rural kids have lower household incomes too so it’s a double whammy when it comes to student debt.

I’m not sure if I have information on KSU’s student recruitment plans. You’d have to come to an administrative meeting or a faculty senate meeting to hear that. Maybe they are open to the public? I don’t actually know.

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Post by Hypeman » February 27th, 2020, 1:22 pm

ToledoCat#2 wrote:
February 27th, 2020, 10:48 am
This has been/is a very good discussion about KSU. The best I've witnessed and participated in.

The slow decay, demise of rural America falla largely at the feet of land-grant universities in general, at KSU's feet specifically in KS. Around 50 years ago, KSU made a decision to go "big time" and try to compete in the liberal arts with KU -- and to largely sideline it's emphasis in ag, engineering and science.

No emphasis was ever put on what it takes to maintain a vibrant rural economy -- PROFITABLE AGRICULTURE, maximum disposable income per acre. Instead, the emphasis was put on MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY IN AG PRODUCTION. The role of marketing in profit was ignored. That spelled the doom for rural population and, hence, an ever-diminishing pool of rural students naturally attracted to KSU.

Proof that KSU still undervalues Agriculture is Waters Hall. It's old, decrepit, and has been badly in need of renovation for decades. KSU's built new science buildings, new chemistry buildings, a new College of Business building, renovated Season Hall -- yet the center of agriculture at KSU languishes.

If KSU had been forward-looking in the 1990s, it would have taken the national lead in developing ways to merchandise (not market) agricultural commodities on the internet. KSU could have become the E-Bay of agriculture and it's financial future secured.

Sad, and the piper is being paid in a financial crisis and a trend toward declining enrollment.
Agreed. I don’t even work in Waters and I’m glad I don’t. All the campus money the last 10 years went to the business school. I believe they actually ran like 15 million short of their fundraising goal for their new building, not including the 15 mil president Shultz picked up from the university at large. I may be slightly off in my figures but that’s indeed what happened. Everyone else picked up the tab. They got some nice offices over there while others battle cockroaches. And how much grant money do they bring in or knowledge do they create?

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Post by stlcatfan » February 27th, 2020, 5:49 pm

Hypeman wrote:
February 27th, 2020, 8:06 am
stlcatfan wrote:
February 26th, 2020, 11:25 pm


Can you explain to me how K-State is spending its scholarship money on wealthy suburban kids over small town middle class kids? I'm not disagreeing with you -- I just need to understand how this is happening. Say a kid gets a 30 on his/her ACT. Whether that kid is from Olpe or Overland Park, wouldn't they both receive the same academic scholarship from K-State or any other school? Or are you saying that K-State needs to put more scholarship money toward families with lower incomes so they can afford college? Of course, kids who come from poorer families qualify for more federal grants and loans, compared to kids from wealthy families.
The wealthy suburban kids have higher ACT scores because of the private tutoring and ability to afford multiple attempts at the test. That’s factual. Kids from wealthy families will take it 6-8 times, use a tutor, and ultimately get higher scores. As a result, most of k-states scholarship money goes to kids from high income families that don’t need scholarships and can afford the tuition. You can look that up. Furthermore, beyond a baseline ACT, kids don’t perform better in college. The conclusion in the academic world is that ACT beyond around a 24, only correlates with family socio-economics. As a result, some schools are dropping ACT entirely.

As of last year, KSU is directing its recruiting budget almost entirely to the KC suburbs. That makes some sense. But, KSU has also increased the ACT scores needed for scholarships which only helps the suburban kids where the resources for getting a higher ACT are more accessible. Most western Kansas high schools don’t have the tutoring and guidance counselors dedicated to ACT that the suburban students have,

As a result, KSU’s recruiting and scholarship money is going to the suburban kids and the western Kansas kids are being left out and the will need to get more loans and or work long hours while going to school.

I’m not making this up, I was in many meetings listening first hand to the shift in focus. The current administration hired an east coast consulting firm who said this is what you should do. The justification is it will potentially help rankings. But it goes agains the land grant mission.

This is very relevant to the comments I see in this thread. People saying they are priced out of KSU and and going to Fort Hayes or many of the other more affordable schools. Unfortunately the administration is saying they don’t want you anyway, unless you’ll buy football tickets of course.
Thanks for your response. Regarding the ACT, I wonder if instead of dropping it entirely, schools limit a student to taking it only twice and taking the best score.

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Post by Hypeman » February 27th, 2020, 8:14 pm

stlcatfan wrote:
February 27th, 2020, 5:49 pm
Hypeman wrote:
February 27th, 2020, 8:06 am


The wealthy suburban kids have higher ACT scores because of the private tutoring and ability to afford multiple attempts at the test. That’s factual. Kids from wealthy families will take it 6-8 times, use a tutor, and ultimately get higher scores. As a result, most of k-states scholarship money goes to kids from high income families that don’t need scholarships and can afford the tuition. You can look that up. Furthermore, beyond a baseline ACT, kids don’t perform better in college. The conclusion in the academic world is that ACT beyond around a 24, only correlates with family socio-economics. As a result, some schools are dropping ACT entirely.

As of last year, KSU is directing its recruiting budget almost entirely to the KC suburbs. That makes some sense. But, KSU has also increased the ACT scores needed for scholarships which only helps the suburban kids where the resources for getting a higher ACT are more accessible. Most western Kansas high schools don’t have the tutoring and guidance counselors dedicated to ACT that the suburban students have,

As a result, KSU’s recruiting and scholarship money is going to the suburban kids and the western Kansas kids are being left out and the will need to get more loans and or work long hours while going to school.

I’m not making this up, I was in many meetings listening first hand to the shift in focus. The current administration hired an east coast consulting firm who said this is what you should do. The justification is it will potentially help rankings. But it goes agains the land grant mission.

This is very relevant to the comments I see in this thread. People saying they are priced out of KSU and and going to Fort Hayes or many of the other more affordable schools. Unfortunately the administration is saying they don’t want you anyway, unless you’ll buy football tickets of course.
Thanks for your response. Regarding the ACT, I wonder if instead of dropping it entirely, schools limit a student to taking it only twice and taking the best score.
Yes, I agree that would be logical. There was a time when schools only looked at your first score for ACT, GRE, GMAT etc. That put students on a bit more level playing field.

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Post by ToledoCat#2 » February 28th, 2020, 12:21 am

When the economic cheese really gets binding, we'll see how badly KSU seizes up. From Myers' comments, it must be binding pretty tightly right now.

As an aside, every thing I learned in rural sociology at KSU is coming true today. Sociology and economics are in lock step and the stairs are headed down.

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Pick 'Em

Post by tmcats » February 28th, 2020, 11:44 am

for those of you not in mhk, construction is underway now. the small corner scoreboards are gone. i've suggested to the a.d. that a camera be available for fans to tune-in remotely as was the case for earlier projects.


Image
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wazucat (February 28th, 2020, 5:01 pm) • stlcatfan (February 28th, 2020, 5:18 pm)
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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Post by stlcatfan » February 28th, 2020, 5:19 pm

tmcats wrote:
February 28th, 2020, 11:44 am
for those of you not in mhk, construction is underway now. the small corner scoreboards are gone. i've suggested to the a.d. that a camera be available for fans to tune-in remotely as was the case for earlier projects.


Image
Good idea and thanks for the update. Unfortunately, I couldn't see the image.

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