alternate lids saturday?

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Re: alternate lids saturday?

Post by AJcat7755 » November 13th, 2019, 4:16 pm

wild@nite wrote:
November 13th, 2019, 3:33 pm
Imo, I think the video is part of people's issue. Why post that video ripping the Powercat off of a helmet? How in the heck did they think people would take that? I guess people statewide are talking KState football, so..... ??? Even the sportstalk Ying Yang's in KC we're discussing it yesterday.

I'm over it. Go kick the ever living crap out of WVU Saturday. This topic has ran its course for me. Moving on when I hit submit....
To me, it's a marketing message to the younger generation of recruits and students. Look at how it was released, where it was released, and what is in the video. It was released on twitter, which is a media more popular in younger generations. Ripping off the PowerCat was an attempt at saying "This isn't your parents K-State anymore". Using a video format, instead of an article with pictures is targeting towards younger generations with shorter attention spans and the youtube/TikTok generation. It's creating a buzz, both good and bad, and getting people talking, which increases visibility to a program that may have gotten stale among younger generations used to seeing the same thing. There is generally more buy into a program when people can relate to it being "theirs" and making changes makes the younger crowd feel like it's different for their generation. Think about it this way, when you were of driving age, would you rather have your older siblings hand me down car, or a different car that wasn't already in the family? It's like getting something that is unique to yourself that no one else has had, and it makes it feel more special. The Millennials defending it are even more reason to why this is working, because they are taking ownership of it as their program (although maybe a bit too far).

It was also for merchandising and apparel sales, which Millennials are the largest purchasers. The results have already shown that this worked as sales have been positive. ... enerations

They also didn't go a different direction and introduce a new logo, instead using something from the past in an attempt to keep some happy by not throwing out a complete overhaul like an Oregon style change. They also used a helmet that was only worn a single year, and the most recent non PowerCat helmet, and not others that were worn many years, so it appears they didn't want to try and bring up too much bad history. Limiting it to a single game also was a way of limiting the negative feedback. The flipped the color scheme to try and separate it from that history a bit though. They knew there would negative feedback, but were trying to limit the impact of that. No one is going to stop buying tickets or stop donating because of a change in 1 game. It's not going to affect the larger donors past a mild aggravation. And any of them that understand the goal behind it are going to put up with it for a game and move on. If they tried a new logo, or to rebrand it permanently, then the pitch forks would be out, and they knew that.

It appears to me, that this wasn't done on a whim, and there is a bigger intent here then just changing things for the sake of changing things. There were intentions behind the how, what and when. Marketing affects everyone differently, so expecting everyone to agree is impossible. Hopefully, it pays off with recruiting, fan buy in, attendance, whatever. It will be impossible to tell a 1 to 1 correlation as there are so many other factors, so we may never know if it worked, but for the cost of a single game, it seems like a low cost to benefit opportunity.

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Post by Number8son » November 13th, 2019, 4:50 pm

AJcat7755 wrote:
November 13th, 2019, 11:15 am
Number8son wrote:
November 12th, 2019, 11:55 pm

Rather than cats why don't we just use "puppies". That would be very intimidating, too. Football is just for fun, that's why we pay coaches 3 to 8 million dollars. The ultimate reason I don't like it is because the slightest difference/hesitation of not recognizing a teammate quickly on pass plays, etc. can have a profound effect on a game...i.e. like a turnover, etc.

1. Cats was used in the past, hence it's a retro throwback. They aren't exactly creating a new helmet with a new logo or saying for an alternative like schools have done. See some of Oregon State's ugly helmets.
2. "Bring on the Cats", "Let's go Cats" or other sayings with Cats used in it. Cats was also used in the past on Northwestern and Kentucky's helmets, so it's not uncommon. "Cats" was also used on the helmets right above the facemask in helmets this year in a very small text.
3. Teams wear a different home and away jersey and do just fine. In the pro-bowl, everyone wears different helmets. Teams all over the nation wear different helmets every game. Studies show, that for recognition on the field, it's the variation in the jersey color, compared to that of the opponent, that has the biggest impact (dark/colored vs the light/white). QBs aren't looking at pants, shoes, or helmets, they are looking at the largest piece of the equipment, which is the jersey. Which is why KU fans were complaining about their jerseys being so close to KSU, as an excuse as to why Stanley threw to the wrong team (I think he just sucks).
4. Cat is actually a full grown animal. So the analogy to "puppies" does not apply. Instead, you should have said "dogs". Even then, everyone knows we aren't talking about domesticated "cats" here, so we wouldn't be talking about domesticated "dogs". Instead, it would be more closely related to the wild version of a dog, which would be "wolves"
5. Trevor Strange, a current player is going to get to wear the same helmet (although color swapped) as his dad Russ Strange did when he played for KSU. Regardless of what you think of the helmets, that is still a pretty interesting story line.

I don't get why all the noise on either side of the argument about a helmet that will be used once in 31 years. I wonder what people would have done back in 1989 when the PowerCat came out if the same situation happened today. That was a logo change across the whole university, and this is just 1 single game. Merchandise is selling out everywhere ($$), players and recruits are buzzing about it (recruiting), it's getting a lot of recognition in the media (publicity). In the end, that is what is important. For those that don't like it, you need to understand it's 1 game, and the positives it brings outweigh that 1 game of having to see it used. For those that love it, it's still only 1 game, so don't get too much in love with it, but buy up the merchandise that feeds $$ back to the school.

Via twitter:
Some don't like Kansas State's throwback logo, but fans bought $50,000 worth of "Cats" merchandise the day it went on sale.

In the end, it will be a side note that everyone will forget happened as long as the team wins with them on.
No, if you saw the teams play with "cats" you would equate them to puppies. You see I remember the few times we have changed helmets, uniforms within the past decades the team has played like crap. But don't worry about history. Instead think of the ego and think about how much attention a change gets, like likes, retweets, etc...

BTW, can you give me the comparative sales figure increase. I have not seen one ad for all this new merchandise that is selling out.

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Post by AJcat7755 » November 13th, 2019, 5:49 pm

Number8son wrote:
November 13th, 2019, 4:50 pm
No, if you saw the teams play with "cats" you would equate them to puppies. You see I remember the few times we have changed helmets, uniforms within the past decades the team has played like crap. But don't worry about history. Instead think of the ego and think about how much attention a change gets, like likes, retweets, etc...

BTW, can you give me the comparative sales figure increase. I have not seen one ad for all this new merchandise that is selling out.
So when they say "Bring on the Cats" when the team runs out, you are thinking a bunch of kittens are running out of the tunnel?

The Catbackers clubs must be a bunch of people sitting around talking about their kittens. I wonder if they fight with the Puppy/Dogbackers clubs.

And don't forget about "Bring on the Cats" webpage/blog/twitter. It's all about kittens.

"Cats" is used all over K-State, an no one is thinking about puppies or kittens. It's used by many in article titles all over the place as an abbreviation. No one is thinking about kittens in those articles, but since it's on a helmet it's now about kittens?

The saying is "It's raining cats and dogs", not "Cats and Puppies". You may relate cats to puppies, but that is not everyone, nor is it the correct analogy. Puppy is the name of an adolescent dog. Kitten is the name of an adolescent cat.

Your trolling about this Cats/Puppies thing right? This can't be a serious argument right? I mean you can hate the script Cats on the helmet, but you can't really be thinking Kittens and Puppies with this.

If you believe that jerseys/helmets affect the outcome of a game, or that history of games, played with a million different factors, will affect the current game, then there is nothing I can tell you that will change your mind. But any strong scientific argument revolves around changing 1, and only 1, factor. Trying to compare a game from years past, with different players, coaches, opponents, weather, etc, to the current game is a stretch at best. Even the 3 more recent helmet changes, 1 was a loss to a top 10 and undefeated Baylor and the other 2 were a single score loss in a game to teams that finished the season in the same situation. Nothing unusual about those losses. Now if KSU losses as a 14 point favorite over WVU, that would be an odd result.

The change in the helmet is not an attempt to affect the outcome on the field, but for other reasons. Whether we like it or not, the change was not made so that the existing hardcore fans would be made happy, or else they would have not made the change in the first place.

As for the sales numbers, I have no clue. However I imagine that 50k sales in one day is more then a regular sales day as it seems fairly high. There is probably a reason why you haven't seen the adds, it's because you aren't the target audience for apparel sales. The adds are located in places where Millennials, who are the target audience, will see them. Their generation is the largest market of apparel sales.

As for the point again on the helmets making it hard to tell the teams apart. Even if the helmet was a significant factor, which evidence has shown it's about the jersey 1st, the issue is distinguishing between 2 different helmets. The logo on the helmet has very little to do with it, as it's more about the color of the helmet in general. WVU has a blue helmet, so KSU having a silver or white helmet will make that difference easy to tell. Had they gone with a all purple helmet with the white Cats on it, then having both a dark color would make it more difficult, if helmet was a factor that is. That might be a reason why they chose the color swap instead of using the same historical helmet.

But I will be there Saturday cheering on the kittens (which I guess is what I'm supposed to think when I see Cats) beat the WVs (whatever that is, but it's on their helmet so it's all I know about the team) in whatever jersey/helmet they decide on because it's not really about the uniforms or jerseys come game time. As long as they don't go all Color Rush like the NFL and go all purple head to toe, I can deal with small changes like a helmet for a single game because I think/hope there is a motive behind the changes that was thought out by people with more experience then myself. Now if they try and take away the PowerCat permanently, I'll have my torch out ready to burn the place down.

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Post by Stealthcat81 » November 13th, 2019, 10:39 pm

I'm one of those older generation (over 60) guys and I love the retro look. It gets the kids excited and it reminds me of how far we have come. I'm looking forward to seeing us play good with this look for a change. You can't change the past by ignoring it so we may as well embrace it and show everyone how much better we are now.

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Post by SkeeterZX190 » November 14th, 2019, 3:22 pm

John Kurtz interviewed Mitch Holthus last night on "The Game". I think it's safe to say Mitch is not a fan of the Cats logo on the helmet. To quote him "they should burn those stickers". Tim Fitzgerald torches Riley Gates and Zach Carlson in their latest GPC Questions podcast. I don't care one way or another, just win. But if we lose..............

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Post by ToledoCat#2 » November 14th, 2019, 4:32 pm

I recall a KSU/Squawks game years ago, back in the bad ol' days, I think Gibson was coach, but not sure, when the Cats came out in new unis and beat the Squawks. If my memory is right, then this short change in unis might be a good thing -- but not if we lose.

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Post by WIldWIllieCat » November 14th, 2019, 7:58 pm

man, this thread could serve as a case study in just how invested many people are in the status quo
"The peculiar office of a demagogue is to advance his own interests, by affecting a deep devotion to the interests of the people. .”

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Post by hilltopwildcat » November 14th, 2019, 11:40 pm

I'm going to buy 1 of the mini-helmets for my collection. Other than that, I don't really understand the reasoning but if we pick up recruits, I'd say it would be a good thing. Still love the Powercat.

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Post by AJcat7755 » November 15th, 2019, 12:12 am

The helmet was in the foreground of SportsCenter/Scott Van Pelt show. Hate it or love it, or don't care either way, still have to acknowledge some publicity can't hurt. I don't watch ESPN much so I don't know if Van Pelt is popular or not, or how many are watching the Pitt / Cleveland game recap to even see that part. ... 08/photo/1

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Post by gdgjr78 » November 15th, 2019, 12:41 am

The publicity from that helmet being there is INVALUABLE to KSU athletics and the university. Recruits love the alternate unis and if you want top 30 recruiting classes this is what we need to do.
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