just read 2018 financial report ...

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Kid In the Hall
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Re: just read 2018 financial report ...

Post by Kid In the Hall » October 9th, 2019, 12:45 pm

JOKKO wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 9:08 am
OU/UT would be foolish to leave the B12. They are truly the only 2 that move the needle at all. They still have so much power (too much) that would completely disappear if they left for any other conference.

..but back on topic...KSU has been smarter than most schools when it comes to their # of teams. They have refused to get in the race to add the extra "Olympic" sport teams which are quite frankly, a drain on an athletic budget. This is also the reason that KSU finishes very low every year in the all-sport ranking. Not having to pay for swimming, softball, men's volleyball, wrestling, gymnastics or any of the other money pits has allowed the money to flow back into newer shiny toys. It's also easier to sell the big donors when they can see that their money is not being wasted. (just guessing here :D )

Football and Men's basketball are the only money makers and must be kept running at a high level so that we can still field competitive teams in the other sports that we have.
There's some truth here, but the reality is also that K-State never finishes high in any rankings (even the ones that are weighted and take into account the number of sports) because our Olympic sports teams generally are mediocre at best (Rovelto's teams being a notable exception). For example, despite having a desirable golf course in our backyard AND the ability for students to have a major in golf, Kristi Knight has been the women's head coach for 25 years and made NCAA regionals five times. Is that "good" - no, not really. Tim Norris was at K-State for 17 years and made NCAA regionals three times.

When Deb Patterson had her run, women's basketball wasn't a financial loss - it actually made money. Now, it's a drain. But, with the right coach, it could make money again. Similarly, Fritz has let her program slump to one of the worst in the Big 12. Volleyball will never likely make money, but it's not unreasonable to think it could generate $500,000 in revenue each year. Baseball and soccer have potential to produce decent amounts of revenue as well.

But, K-State needs to win for that to happen and, all too often, especially with the "non-profit" sports, the message from the various athletic department administrations over the years has essentially been: stay out of trouble and you can stay as long as you like (regardless of your program's competitive success).

That culture of mediocrity needs to change and it starts with holding head coaches accountable (let's not forget - even the golf coaches are making six figures).

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Post by tmcats » October 9th, 2019, 1:07 pm

2018 k-state football had an operating margin of $22.3 million, mbb $1.7 million, and wbb lost $3.7 million. i'm not sure deb's program ever turned financially positive but it may have been close during the wecker years, certainly better than the cash hog we have today.
Last edited by tmcats on October 9th, 2019, 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by hilltopwildcat » October 9th, 2019, 1:08 pm

Kid, it's my understanding Gasso (sp) makes a million/yr coaching softball at OU. I'd guess their other sports pay proportionally as well too.

I guess it's a chicken or egg scenario. Maybe the AD could find a "sugar daddy" for each non-major sport?

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Post by tmcats » October 9th, 2019, 1:22 pm

2011 k-state wbb lost $2 million. that team finished 3rd in the league and lost in the first round of the ncaa. records don't go back to wecker's time here. 2014, the year john currie canned deb patterson, wbb lost $2.8 million.
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Post by Hypeman » October 9th, 2019, 2:02 pm

tmcats wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 8:51 am
Hypeman wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 8:33 pm
Kudos to the alumni, but that’s a lot of reliance on donations. That donation amount alone is bigger than the total budget of many schools. Probably some that consistently finish higher in on field/court performance.

I wonder if that surplus will sustain and if the Big12 payout will sustain if the next round of TV negations go south like many are predicting?
there's no way of knowing if debt payments were accelerated by reading what i did in the reports, but i doubt it very much. and if the b12 folds, it will be very tough for k-state. :|
I doubt it will ever fold, but we’re due for change soon. It seems to happen in regular intervals. A 100 mil budget with roughly 2/3 coming from donations and television leaves me uneasy. Of course all of college sports are in that boat (or worse).

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Post by tmcats » October 9th, 2019, 2:05 pm

i'm not sure where revenue would come from if not predominantly from supporters and media sales?
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Post by stlcatfan » October 9th, 2019, 6:11 pm

Hypeman wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 2:02 pm
tmcats wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 8:51 am


there's no way of knowing if debt payments were accelerated by reading what i did in the reports, but i doubt it very much. and if the b12 folds, it will be very tough for k-state. :|
I doubt it will ever fold, but we’re due for change soon. It seems to happen in regular intervals. A 100 mil budget with roughly 2/3 coming from donations and television leaves me uneasy. Of course all of college sports are in that boat (or worse).
This is why I am glad that we have been using the large increase of incoming $$$ over the past decade to build and renovate our facilities to keep them competitive with other P5 schools. I, too, wonder what the landscape will look like 5-10 years from now. It is good that we are striking while the iron is hot.

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Post by Hypeman » October 9th, 2019, 6:12 pm

stlcatfan wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 6:11 pm
Hypeman wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 2:02 pm


I doubt it will ever fold, but we’re due for change soon. It seems to happen in regular intervals. A 100 mil budget with roughly 2/3 coming from donations and television leaves me uneasy. Of course all of college sports are in that boat (or worse).
This is why I am glad that we have been using the large increase of incoming $$$ over the past decade to build and renovate our facilities to keep them competitive with other P5 schools. I, too, wonder what the landscape will look like 5-10 years from now. It is good that we are striking while the iron is hot.
You’re right about that.

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Post by epicsnyder » October 9th, 2019, 8:47 pm

I am confused as to why a women's BB team would lose nearly FOUR MILLION in a year. Where is the breakdown of that loss? Do they wear gold shoes, travel on private jets, have a private massage room, feed them lobster? WTF could you possibly spend THAT much money on for any BB team?

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Post by Kid In the Hall » October 9th, 2019, 8:55 pm

During the Wecker/Koehn/Ohlde days, they were averaging 8,000+ fans per game. I'm sure some of those were freebies and they weren't making monster $$$, but it certainly wasn't losing $3 million a year.

There was a "gold rush" (so to speak) in the late 90s through the mid to late 2000s in which the notion of equality for WBB massively boosted salaries/operational costs at many schools. Deb rode that wave during her successful years and got massive pay/program increases well beyond what the market should have paid (especially considering her diminishing results). Nationwide, that's normalized a bit during the last 5-10 years and, for the most part, salaries/operating costs are more in line with what they should be (setting aside places like UConn).

But, the ultimate point remains - if K-State stopped letting mediocre coaches stay for 10+ years, it would increase the odds that we find another McLaughlin/Rovelto/Steinberg who can do very good/great things. And, if they only stay for 4-5 years (like McLaughlin/Steinberg), that's okay - the programs will be in much better shape and more attractive for the next coach.
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