How did we get to this place?

Welcome Chris Klieman to K-State!
Zoltar
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Re: How did we get to this place?

Post by Zoltar » July 30th, 2019, 6:00 pm

You can be a Snyder fan and appreciate all that he did and has done for our program. You can also be a KSU fan and appreciate having a good, winning football program. While for a long time these were the same thing, I think they tended to be mutually exclusive the last few years.

I will always respect Coach for making us a winning program. I think it was just time for a fresh look at head coach to keep or return to a top-flight program.

I can't believe anyone here would have wanted us to go on a real losing streak for 2 or more years and Coach Snyder being fired. He simply deserves more than that and probably waited longer than he should have. Regardless of age, it was the right time.
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randallcat85 (July 30th, 2019, 7:38 pm)
Win the dang day!

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MajorAppleCat
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Post by MajorAppleCat » July 31st, 2019, 12:09 am

hilltopwildcat wrote:
July 29th, 2019, 10:29 pm
Great coach. Time waits for no man, time to move on.
So true. Time waits for no man. In the end we are all destined for obsolescence. There is no exception.

I viewed Bill Snyder's tenure over when his assistant coaches retired and left for other programs. At that point it was only a matter of time. He simply did not have the age or time to replace them. However, he was truly a great coach and the only coach that could have ever resurrected Kansas State football. Without him, KState would not have a football program. He certainly could have left for greener pastures early in his career. His loyalty to KState has been phenominal. He is owed a great amount and I do not begrudge him for wanting his son to replace him. I also recognize that Sean may have not been the best person for the job. Time will tell.

On the same note, Klieman may or may not be the best person for the job. Time will tell. Fans will no doubt expect him to have the same consistency of winning as Bill Snyder. Bill Snyder was able to win 7-8 games a season over his career, and at a time when he could recruit the JuCo's and schedule three easy tune-up games. He came into the league after Switzer and McCarthy had retired, with Tom Osbourn following shortly thereafter. Times are different. Recruiting is different. IMO Klieman will be lucky to consistently win 5-6 games per season. If he does better, he too will be eligible for the HOF. However, I seriously doubt that he will ever show the loyalty that Bill Snyder has shown Kansas State, nor would I expect him too.
"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." Alexis de Tocqueville

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Post by ksustars754 » July 31st, 2019, 7:21 am

If we get to say August 2022 and he’s 16-20 or something like that with 3 seasons of 5-6 wins, he and Gene Taylor will be under ridiculous pressure and probably playing that season out for their jobs.

My counterpoint against your take Major is that while recruiting may be different and less available JUCO wise than Snyder 1.0, it’s not that much different than Snyder 2.0. Snyder still had seasons of 9,10,11 wins in his second stint. With all of his success too, the program - facilities wise - is caught up with the rest of the conference. So CK doesn’t have the same battle there.

I don’t think 7-8 wins regularly is far-fetched for CK but maybe I’m too biased about the program.

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Post by hilltopwildcat » July 31st, 2019, 9:25 am

I think Coach Snyder was so laser focused on what was going on on the field and issues surrounding his players, he began to forget that ultimately it boils down to how many butts are in the seats. I don't think he realized that the program was fading in fan interest and that may be a nation-wide problem as well. There was a "K-State" style and we had veered away from that some. I think that's 1 reason Klieman was hired. He came in here and beat Snyder at his own game. Hopefully he can return the program to that mindset. Or he will probably be shown the door. I just have a gut feeling that the golden age of sports, at least the big 3, may be over.

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Post by Opensource » July 31st, 2019, 12:37 pm

I watched the Copper Bowl again. The overall level of athleticism wasn't near what we had achieved at one point. But, we had some gamers. I also noticed the players were aggressive, having fun, and there was excitement. Didn't see that level of joy and excitement lately, even in the best 2.0 years. I think the sideline climate changed where the joy was gone.

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Pick 'Em

Post by AJcat7755 » July 31st, 2019, 1:37 pm

ksustars754 wrote:
July 31st, 2019, 7:21 am
If we get to say August 2022 and he’s 16-20 or something like that with 3 seasons of 5-6 wins, he and Gene Taylor will be under ridiculous pressure and probably playing that season out for their jobs.

My counterpoint against your take Major is that while recruiting may be different and less available JUCO wise than Snyder 1.0, it’s not that much different than Snyder 2.0. Snyder still had seasons of 9,10,11 wins in his second stint. With all of his success too, the program - facilities wise - is caught up with the rest of the conference. So CK doesn’t have the same battle there.

I don’t think 7-8 wins regularly is far-fetched for CK but maybe I’m too biased about the program.
2022 is the season for real evaluation of how the program will go in the future. A new coach should be given a chance to have a full recruiting class become upperclassmen. 2019 was a gap fill class, so 2020 will be his first full class. In 2022, they will be 3 years into the program. Because of all the holes that were left by the previous regime, 2020 and 2021 season will be a lot of underclassmen playing that should get valuable time for that key 2022 season.

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Pick 'Em

Post by wild@nite » July 31st, 2019, 2:49 pm

Agree 100%.

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MajorAppleCat
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Post by MajorAppleCat » July 31st, 2019, 5:39 pm

Disagree.

If you have to wait until 2022 to make the determination of whether the Klieman hire is a good one or not, it is too late. Bill Snyder had an almost immediate impact on the football team after he arrived, and within the second year had improved the team to almost bowl eligibility. Thus, KState fans ought to know something by the end of the first season or no later than the second season to know whether the Klieman hire was a good one. See Iowa State as an example. If KState is waiting on the third year for decided improvement, it has waited to long. By the third year the trajectory will either be a progression of improvement of the second year or a flat-line.
"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." Alexis de Tocqueville

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Post by ksustars754 » July 31st, 2019, 6:09 pm

AJcat7755 wrote:
July 31st, 2019, 1:37 pm
ksustars754 wrote:
July 31st, 2019, 7:21 am
If we get to say August 2022 and he’s 16-20 or something like that with 3 seasons of 5-6 wins, he and Gene Taylor will be under ridiculous pressure and probably playing that season out for their jobs.

My counterpoint against your take Major is that while recruiting may be different and less available JUCO wise than Snyder 1.0, it’s not that much different than Snyder 2.0. Snyder still had seasons of 9,10,11 wins in his second stint. With all of his success too, the program - facilities wise - is caught up with the rest of the conference. So CK doesn’t have the same battle there.

I don’t think 7-8 wins regularly is far-fetched for CK but maybe I’m too biased about the program.
2022 is the season for real evaluation of how the program will go in the future. A new coach should be given a chance to have a full recruiting class become upperclassmen. 2019 was a gap fill class, so 2020 will be his first full class. In 2022, they will be 3 years into the program. Because of all the holes that were left by the previous regime, 2020 and 2021 season will be a lot of underclassmen playing that should get valuable time for that key 2022 season.
Ok but you’re going to have an experienced QB for 19 and 20 so 5 or 6 win seasons should not be a passing grade for anyone. If you don’t think you have to see improvement before the 2022 season, then I don’t know what to say. What I do know is that if there’s 3 down years heading into 2022, there’s going to be an upset fanbase and a ton of pressure to win that year. Or worse, there will be an apathetic fanbase.

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Pick 'Em

Post by wild@nite » July 31st, 2019, 7:23 pm

I don't think he was saying we're going to be bad til 2022. I took it as that is when we will know for 100% certainty what kind of hire we made. Are we going to be a .500 program under him or can he get us to 9-10 wins.

I think expecting 9-10 wins this year, or next is a little unfair to CK (although who knows?). He is following a HOF and we, as fans need to give him time, as he is an unknown at this level. Unless, we just flat out suck.

Comparing him to a 50 year old Snyder isn't really that fair either. That Bill Snyder may have been the best in the game (and I think he was at that time).

Just saying.... The next 3 years can be good, but I agree that 2022 is the year we should "expect" to be in a title hunt.

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