wefald proposes b12/p12 alliance ...

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tmcats
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Re: wefald proposes b12/p12 alliance ...

Post by tmcats » March 4th, 2019, 1:00 pm

hilltopwildcat wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 12:54 pm
tmcats wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 12:46 pm


students are subsidized by taxpayers. so, subsidizing out of state students runs against common sense.
It's quoted on here many times how the state subsidies have been shrinking. How is out of state tuition figured? Why are other states doing this? How are they justifying it?

Oklahoma State University In-state 7,778 USD, Out-of-state 20,978 USD

University of Iowa In-state 8,104 USD, Out-of-state 27,890 USD

University of Oklahoma In-state 10,090 USD, Out-of-state 23,476 USD

University of Nebraska In-state 8,367 USD, Out-of-state 22,534 USD

University of Rhode Island In-state 12,862 USD, Out-of-state 28,852 USD

University of Oregon In-state 10,287 USD, Out-of-state 32,022 USD

University of Florida In-state 6,381 USD, Out-of-state 28,659 USD

Mizzou In-state 9,509 USD, Out-of-state 25,166 USD

Texas Tech In-state 8,028 USD, Out-of-state 17,388 USD

K-State In-state 9,350 USD, Out-of-state 23,429 USD
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

tmcats
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Post by tmcats » March 4th, 2019, 4:30 pm

i understand there's some serious work going on now trying to lower tuition and degree requirements to make the kansas universities more competitive.
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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Post by wazucat » March 4th, 2019, 7:20 pm

tmcats wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 4:30 pm
i understand there's some serious work going on now trying to lower tuition and degree requirements to make the kansas universities more competitive.
School administrations and state legislatures would seem to have diametrically opposed goals in mind as far as funding college costs? Or am I missing something here, aren't our administrators expecting state funding to continue toward zero even as they lobby to stop the cuts already in place?

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Post by wazucat » March 4th, 2019, 7:24 pm

tmcats wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 1:00 pm
hilltopwildcat wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 12:54 pm


It's quoted on here many times how the state subsidies have been shrinking. How is out of state tuition figured? Why are other states doing this? How are they justifying it?

Oklahoma State University In-state 7,778 USD, Out-of-state 20,978 USD

University of Iowa In-state 8,104 USD, Out-of-state 27,890 USD

University of Oklahoma In-state 10,090 USD, Out-of-state 23,476 USD

University of Nebraska In-state 8,367 USD, Out-of-state 22,534 USD

University of Rhode Island In-state 12,862 USD, Out-of-state 28,852 USD

University of Oregon In-state 10,287 USD, Out-of-state 32,022 USD

University of Florida In-state 6,381 USD, Out-of-state 28,659 USD

Mizzou In-state 9,509 USD, Out-of-state 25,166 USD

Texas Tech In-state 8,028 USD, Out-of-state 17,388 USD

K-State In-state 9,350 USD, Out-of-state 23,429 USD
That list may not be representative of all our competition, but even so I see no earthly reason a non resident would choose KSU-- if cost is a factor at all.

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Post by Hypeman » March 4th, 2019, 8:34 pm

wazucat wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 7:24 pm
tmcats wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 1:00 pm



Oklahoma State University In-state 7,778 USD, Out-of-state 20,978 USD

University of Iowa In-state 8,104 USD, Out-of-state 27,890 USD

University of Oklahoma In-state 10,090 USD, Out-of-state 23,476 USD

University of Nebraska In-state 8,367 USD, Out-of-state 22,534 USD

University of Rhode Island In-state 12,862 USD, Out-of-state 28,852 USD

University of Oregon In-state 10,287 USD, Out-of-state 32,022 USD

University of Florida In-state 6,381 USD, Out-of-state 28,659 USD

Mizzou In-state 9,509 USD, Out-of-state 25,166 USD

Texas Tech In-state 8,028 USD, Out-of-state 17,388 USD

K-State In-state 9,350 USD, Out-of-state 23,429 USD
That list may not be representative of all our competition, but even so I see no earthly reason a non resident would choose KSU-- if cost is a factor at all.
Some states don’t charge the full out of state tuition to kids from neighboring states. That isn’t represented in the figures you posted. You also don’t have the additional “fees”, only the base fees. Those additional fees are becoming a big percentage of the cost. Trust me, I’ve written a few checks! Fees are a sneaky way to raise tuition without raising official tuition. It’s the fine print. For example the KSU engineering, business, and vet schools charge a huge amount of extra fees to cover side programs and administrative costs. It can be as high as a few thousand or more per year. If you add those in, you will find KSU to be fairly expensive. I can see the vet school getting extra because there are so few vet schools and competition to get in is high, but engineering is average and the b-school is probably below average. Having a high price when students aren’t competing to get in sounds like a bad idea.

You also need to consider how schools divy out scholarship money. That can make a huge difference. Private schools typically charge huge tuition but offer huge scholarships equaling out the cost. It’s a marketing scheme, but people fall for it. KSU’s scholarship formulas actually give most of their scholarship money to rich kids believe or not. I suppose the hope is that some donation will follow.
Last edited by Hypeman on March 4th, 2019, 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Hypeman » March 4th, 2019, 8:38 pm

tmcats wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 4:30 pm
i understand there's some serious work going on now trying to lower tuition and degree requirements to make the kansas universities more competitive.
Make it easier! That sounds like a good idea. Not! Hand out degrees and they will come. That might work for a while until employers get wind of it.

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Post by Opensource » March 4th, 2019, 9:03 pm

Adjusted for inflation, Kansas universities lost more than a quarter of their state funding since 2001. Tuition is higher now I would say for several reasons. This article accurately states that in 2001 students payed 34% of the cost of higher education and now they pay 71% https://www.kcur.org/post/higher-ed-cut ... n#stream/0 Of K-State's total budget only 20% comes from taxpayers directly from Kansas, although there are indirect funds through federal grants. So, the Kansas legislature has defunded it. I could make a case that K-State should just become a private institution and then they would not have to do things the legislature asks them to do without paying for it. Many of these things have nothing to do with the students who are paying tuition. I could also make the case that the cost of higher education has gone up due to technology and higher expectations from students for some things other than just a chair, book, and chalk board. So, K-State has to provide things that cost money to recruit students. Finally, I think way too much time is spent now trying to get money by administrators and faculty. If higher education was a public good like it was post WW2 until Reagan, it likely would be more efficient. Either go free market or go public good. Staying in the middle doesn't work well.
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Zoltar
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Post by Zoltar » March 4th, 2019, 10:02 pm

How much of this gets back to our AGR buddy and former student body president Sam Brownback?
Win the dang day!

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Post by Opensource » March 4th, 2019, 10:48 pm

Zoltar wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:02 pm
How much of this gets back to our AGR buddy and former student body president Sam Brownback?
Well, we can blame Brownback or blame the people with money who controlled Brownback. Save that for the political threads. I think this thread was about us competing in the market with the Pac 12. There are ways to compete. K-State has a lot to offer. But, if we let the universities with TV sets take over we are out.

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Post by tmcats » March 5th, 2019, 12:45 pm

Hypeman wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 8:38 pm
tmcats wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 4:30 pm
i understand there's some serious work going on now trying to lower tuition and degree requirements to make the kansas universities more competitive.
Make it easier! That sounds like a good idea. Not! Hand out degrees and they will come. That might work for a while until employers get wind of it.
i believe the idea is to reduce the hours required for graduation to 120 as best i can recall. when i taught, a lot of students told me many of their classes were worthless adventures into boredom. i have no way of judging that other than from their comments. but the feedback was not good about some of the offerings.
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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