wefald proposes b12/p12 alliance ...

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Opensource
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Re: wefald proposes b12/p12 alliance ...

Post by Opensource » March 3rd, 2019, 3:41 pm

tmcats wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 1:39 pm
Between 1985 and 2011, average tuition nationwide increased 498 percent—more than four times the rate of general inflation (114 percent) as measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI). Forbes
So, tell me why? And, recognized Kansas State tuition is pretty affordable compared to the Pac 12 universities that started all this discussion and many of those with large increases that are included your statement. You likely know the answer but don't want to share it because it doesn't support your beliefs that you are always selling on this board.

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Post by ToledoCat#2 » March 3rd, 2019, 3:52 pm

I've grandchildren graduating from college and high school in Tennessee. For what some might call a "backward" state, Tenn is very "forward looking" when it comes to higher education. For starters, it gives a $12,500 state sponsored scholarship to every high school graduate who wants to attend any institution of higher learning. Only kids that didn't get that schollie were the ones going into the military and those who wanted a paycheck the next week out of HS.

I don't know the exact value, but I'd venture a guess that ALL the HS grads who wanted to attend a 4 year school received a minimum of $30,000 worth of scholarships and a few select scholars received more than $150,000 in scholarships.

I think the main reason that TN is so seemingly generous is a function of way more population and a state economy not anchored by, sadly, agriculture -- which is the case in KS.

As an aside, my son-in-law tells me that the community colleges and 2-year tech schools in TN partner up closely with nearby industries to specifically train the kinds of employees those industries need. In turn, the industries help the CCs tool up and school up for the job.

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Post by stlcatfan » March 3rd, 2019, 4:19 pm

Hypeman wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 3:33 pm
Lots of good discussion. Tech degrees are a great choice and in huge demand. Of course almost every major is in demand with the exit of the baby boomers from the workforce, but technical areas have a particularly high shortage.

Tuition and “hidden fees” are driving many out of the college education market and schools in rural areas are having a difficult time with declining enrollment, KSU is no different. One difference between KSU and the schools in the PAC and the UTs of the world is they don’t have a problem getting enough students like KSU. They turn down way more than even apply at KSU. Thus trying to keep KSU tuition rates at a similar level is not possible (simple supply and demand). KSU is trying to keep pace with tuition and fee hikes while begging students to attend. That doesn’t work well. KSU is also ‘trying’ to up its research profile to hang with the big dogs, but that gets real costly, particularly in the social sciences where they don’t bring in research money.

I also think the cause of the increase in tuition cost is multifaceted but mainly a combo of overspending by college administrators and reduced public supprt (or perhaps more things competing for the public’s tax dollar).

That was a lot of rambling.
Not at all. Those were good points. Like I said in my earlier post, schools like K-State need to adapt to these changes or continue to decline in enrollment. I don't know what all the answers are to adapting to the changing paradigm, but maybe part of it involves recruiting more intensely in places like California and other high population states.

Along with scholarships, maybe we could wave out-of-state tuition for those with a high GPA and exceptional ACT/SAT scores. Maybe it is streamlining things so that students can take more classes related to their major, early on and fewer classes that have nothing to do with their major course of study. Something like that may also make it easier for an undergrad to get his/her degree in less time, saving the student money. It would certainly be a great marketing tool to attract more students who don't want to take Art History, Theatre, and Gender Studies while studying to be an Electrical Engineer.
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hilltopwildcat (March 3rd, 2019, 4:35 pm)

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Post by hilltopwildcat » March 3rd, 2019, 4:38 pm

Many many things fail when they fail to recognize change and be able to adapt ahead of time. As a farmer, I've seen the way of life I grew up with change dramatically and there is even more drastic change on the horizon. Those who fail to plan are doomed to fail (although a state university may hang on much longer than a particular businessman). Access to capital will continue to be essential. As stl stated, waiving or at least drastically reducing out of state fees may get those who are rejected by other universities to look K-State's way.

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Post by Opensource » March 3rd, 2019, 6:33 pm

stlcatfan wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 4:19 pm
Hypeman wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 3:33 pm
Lots of good discussion. Tech degrees are a great choice and in huge demand. Of course almost every major is in demand with the exit of the baby boomers from the workforce, but technical areas have a particularly high shortage.

Tuition and “hidden fees” are driving many out of the college education market and schools in rural areas are having a difficult time with declining enrollment, KSU is no different. One difference between KSU and the schools in the PAC and the UTs of the world is they don’t have a problem getting enough students like KSU. They turn down way more than even apply at KSU. Thus trying to keep KSU tuition rates at a similar level is not possible (simple supply and demand). KSU is trying to keep pace with tuition and fee hikes while begging students to attend. That doesn’t work well. KSU is also ‘trying’ to up its research profile to hang with the big dogs, but that gets real costly, particularly in the social sciences where they don’t bring in research money.

I also think the cause of the increase in tuition cost is multifaceted but mainly a combo of overspending by college administrators and reduced public supprt (or perhaps more things competing for the public’s tax dollar).

That was a lot of rambling.
Not at all. Those were good points. Like I said in my earlier post, schools like K-State need to adapt to these changes or continue to decline in enrollment. I don't know what all the answers are to adapting to the changing paradigm, but maybe part of it involves recruiting more intensely in places like California and other high population states.

Along with scholarships, maybe we could wave out-of-state tuition for those with a high GPA and exceptional ACT/SAT scores. Maybe it is streamlining things so that students can take more classes related to their major, early on and fewer classes that have nothing to do with their major course of study. Something like that may also make it easier for an undergrad to get his/her degree in less time, saving the student money. It would certainly be a great marketing tool to attract more students who don't want to take Art History, Theatre, and Gender Studies while studying to be an Electrical Engineer.
Students in Engineering now take a bunch of AP courses in high school and don't really have to take the courses you talk about or get educated in the important liberal arts and social sciences areas. No Steve Job's coming out of K-State Engineering.

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Post by ToledoCat#2 » March 4th, 2019, 9:31 am

I've always had the question about why out of state students are charged more than in-state students when KSU is wanting to expand its enrollment. It costs no more to educate an out-of-state student than an in-state one. If KSU is not getting sufficient in-state students to keep growing, well, open the school up to a broader base.

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Post by Zoltar » March 4th, 2019, 12:45 pm

State schools are supported by state taxes. A Kansas resident pays taxes to support the university. This is why it costs more for any state school for out of state students.

I guess we could raise state taxes to lower out of state tuition. I am certain everyone is in favor of that idea.
Win the dang day!

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Post by tmcats » March 4th, 2019, 12:46 pm

ToledoCat#2 wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 9:31 am
I've always had the question about why out of state students are charged more than in-state students when KSU is wanting to expand its enrollment. It costs no more to educate an out-of-state student than an in-state one. If KSU is not getting sufficient in-state students to keep growing, well, open the school up to a broader base.
students are subsidized by taxpayers. so, subsidizing out of state students runs against common sense.
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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Post by tmcats » March 4th, 2019, 12:53 pm

Opensource wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 3:41 pm
tmcats wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 1:39 pm
Between 1985 and 2011, average tuition nationwide increased 498 percent—more than four times the rate of general inflation (114 percent) as measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI). Forbes
So, tell me why? And, recognized Kansas State tuition is pretty affordable compared to the Pac 12 universities that started all this discussion and many of those with large increases that are included your statement. You likely know the answer but don't want to share it because it doesn't support your beliefs that you are always selling on this board.
i'm not an expert on the subject. but federal money flowing freely into the system through student loans, pell grants and otherwise has resulted in increased budgets and tuition. i was paid $6,000 to teach a senior level class in the k-state business school that generated ~$50,000 in revenue.
Last edited by tmcats on March 4th, 2019, 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There ain't anybody stoppin' our ass!" CK

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Post by hilltopwildcat » March 4th, 2019, 12:54 pm

tmcats wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 12:46 pm
ToledoCat#2 wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 9:31 am
I've always had the question about why out of state students are charged more than in-state students when KSU is wanting to expand its enrollment. It costs no more to educate an out-of-state student than an in-state one. If KSU is not getting sufficient in-state students to keep growing, well, open the school up to a broader base.
students are subsidized by taxpayers. so, subsidizing out of state students runs against common sense.
It's quoted on here many times how the state subsidies have been shrinking. How is out of state tuition figured? Why are other states doing this? How are they justifying it?

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