Skylar Thompson in the spread

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oscar
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Re: Skylar Thompson in the spread

Post by oscar » December 5th, 2018, 10:13 pm

Freeman had (might be inaccurate) a dozen that played with him that were nfl players. Talent not so much the issue, discipline and consistent coaching did not seem there. Franklin and Morris both were great, but left quickly.
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Post by hilltopwildcat » December 5th, 2018, 10:47 pm

Freeman dropped dimes all over the field.

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Post by hilltopwildcat » December 5th, 2018, 11:47 pm

oscar wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 10:13 pm
Freeman had (might be inaccurate) a dozen that played with him that were nfl players. Talent not so much the issue, discipline and consistent coaching did not seem there. Franklin and Morris both were great, but left quickly.
Here is the list of players who were eligible to catch passes from Freeman.

2006 Alstatt, Alsup, Anders, Brown, Clayton, Toney Coleman, Figurs, Ficher, Gonzalez, Greer, James Johnson, Mastrud, McCandle, Moreira, Nelson, Norwood, Patton, Petrie, Pooschke, Prater, Raymer, Richards, Schulters, Taylor.

2007 Alstatt, Bell, Brown, Coleman, Gantz, Gonzalez, Harrison, Hogan, Johnson, Mack, Mastrud, McCardle, Murphy, Nelson, Norwood, Patton, Petrie, Pierce, Pooschke, Purvis, Reed, Schultz, Wilson, Woods, Wykes.

2008 Alstatt, Banks, Bell, Kwamaine Brown, LeMark Brown, Childs, Cuba, Daniels, Delarue, Dold, Draper, Gantz, Harrison, Hilburn, Kenner, Mack, Masturd, Morrison, Murphy, Patton, Pierce, Purvis, Quarles, Seiwert, Simons, Snipes, Valentine, Wilson, Woods, Wykes.

OK, I've got Figurs, Mastrud, Jordy and I think Banks NFL for sure. Maybe James Johnson? Help me with the other 7.

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Post by Tbonespop » December 6th, 2018, 12:35 am

He had other players on defense if you choose to include them as part of the team - I think Oscar was including defense too. Kyle Williams (FA), Brandon Archer, Zach Diles, Rob Jackson, Reggie Walker, Ray Cheatum (FA, got cut, played in CFL), Josh Moore, Ian Campbell (played for Rams in 09),

James Johnson and Thomas Clayton both played in the NFL. As you noted, Figurs, Nelson, Banks, Mastrud.

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Post by hilltopwildcat » December 6th, 2018, 12:59 am

Tbonespop wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 12:35 am
He had other players on defense if you choose to include them as part of the team - I think Oscar was including defense too. Kyle Williams (FA), Brandon Archer, Zach Diles, Rob Jackson, Reggie Walker, Ray Cheatum (FA, got cut, played in CFL), Josh Moore, Ian Campbell (played for Rams in 09),

James Johnson and Thomas Clayton both played in the NFL. As you noted, Figurs, Nelson, Banks, Mastrud.
Saying the team was mediocre because Freeman didn't perform is like saying they were mediocre because Brandon Archer didn't perform. In '06, Freeman took over as the starter in game 6 against OSU. That season we were outscored 25.8-22.8. In '07 we went 5-7 but outscored opponents 35.2-30.9. In '08, we were outscored 35.8-34.9. 1 of the big problems was we were getting our asses handed to us by outrageous scores against sKUm, moozoo and the nubs.

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Post by Tbonespop » December 6th, 2018, 9:17 am

hilltopwildcat wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 12:59 am
Tbonespop wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 12:35 am
He had other players on defense if you choose to include them as part of the team - I think Oscar was including defense too. Kyle Williams (FA), Brandon Archer, Zach Diles, Rob Jackson, Reggie Walker, Ray Cheatum (FA, got cut, played in CFL), Josh Moore, Ian Campbell (played for Rams in 09),

James Johnson and Thomas Clayton both played in the NFL. As you noted, Figurs, Nelson, Banks, Mastrud.
Saying the team was mediocre because Freeman didn't perform is like saying they were mediocre because Brandon Archer didn't perform. In '06, Freeman took over as the starter in game 6 against OSU. That season we were outscored 25.8-22.8. In '07 we went 5-7 but outscored opponents 35.2-30.9. In '08, we were outscored 35.8-34.9. 1 of the big problems was we were getting our asses handed to us by outrageous scores against sKUm, moozoo and the nubs.
I'm in total agreement with you. And for the record, the same people were chirping back in those years about "lack of talent" as they do today. The EXACT same people. Looking back now, one can see just how much talent was on those teams. It further proves my point I continually try to make - which is coaching matters. That's not to say a team couldn't always benefit from improved talent, I will always want and take improvements in talent level. But the immediate knee jerk reaction to always first and foremost blaming "lack of talent" for a loss or poor season is a bunch of crap. Coaching matters, scheme matters, execution matters, discipline matters, and experience matters.

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Post by oscar » December 6th, 2018, 11:04 am

hilltopwildcat wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 11:47 pm
oscar wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 10:13 pm
Freeman had (might be inaccurate) a dozen that played with him that were nfl players. Talent not so much the issue, discipline and consistent coaching did not seem there. Franklin and Morris both were great, but left quickly.
Here is the list of players who were eligible to catch passes from Freeman.

2006 Alstatt, Alsup, Anders, Brown, Clayton, Toney Coleman, Figurs, Ficher, Gonzalez, Greer, James Johnson, Mastrud, McCandle, Moreira, Nelson, Norwood, Patton, Petrie, Pooschke, Prater, Raymer, Richards, Schulters, Taylor.

2007 Alstatt, Bell, Brown, Coleman, Gantz, Gonzalez, Harrison, Hogan, Johnson, Mack, Mastrud, McCardle, Murphy, Nelson, Norwood, Patton, Petrie, Pierce, Pooschke, Purvis, Reed, Schultz, Wilson, Woods, Wykes.

2008 Alstatt, Banks, Bell, Kwamaine Brown, LeMark Brown, Childs, Cuba, Daniels, Delarue, Dold, Draper, Gantz, Harrison, Hilburn, Kenner, Mack, Masturd, Morrison, Murphy, Patton, Pierce, Purvis, Quarles, Seiwert, Simons, Snipes, Valentine, Wilson, Woods, Wykes.

OK, I've got Figurs, Mastrud, Jordy and I think Banks NFL for sure. Maybe James Johnson? Help me with the other 7.
My source for this was Stan, he might have included guys who had a cup of coffee in an NFL camp as well. There were some defensive players on the list as well,

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Post by oscar » December 6th, 2018, 11:10 am

Top QB's in KSU history, list pretty much like a Snyder all-star team. Bishop, Roberson, Klein, Beasley, May. Dickey and Grogan were stellar in the NFL. Freeman was the guy who simply did not win a lot of games, good stat guy though.

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Post by MajorAppleCat » December 6th, 2018, 11:51 am

Tbonespop wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 9:17 am
hilltopwildcat wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 12:59 am


Saying the team was mediocre because Freeman didn't perform is like saying they were mediocre because Brandon Archer didn't perform. In '06, Freeman took over as the starter in game 6 against OSU. That season we were outscored 25.8-22.8. In '07 we went 5-7 but outscored opponents 35.2-30.9. In '08, we were outscored 35.8-34.9. 1 of the big problems was we were getting our asses handed to us by outrageous scores against sKUm, moozoo and the nubs.
I'm in total agreement with you. And for the record, the same people were chirping back in those years about "lack of talent" as they do today. The EXACT same people. Looking back now, one can see just how much talent was on those teams. It further proves my point I continually try to make - which is coaching matters. That's not to say a team couldn't always benefit from improved talent, I will always want and take improvements in talent level. But the immediate knee jerk reaction to always first and foremost blaming "lack of talent" for a loss or poor season is a bunch of crap. Coaching matters, scheme matters, execution matters, discipline matters, and experience matters.
Coaching matters. Talent matters.

However, most P5 teams can put talent on the field to compete, i.e., eg. Boise State is the one that comes to mind. Coaching staff being equal, It's a lack of depth of talent that ultimately separates the championship team from the also-rans. Having said as much, good coaching makes up for a lack of depth of talent.

What cost KState several games and a bowl game this year was the fact that it lost key players from last year's team who could not be easily replaced (McCrain, Reid, Pringle, etc.), and mistakes on special teams, i.e., Zuber. What cost KState the Iowa State game was the fact that the OC put Thompson in a position to fail in the fourth quarter by calling a pass play instead of playing it more conservative... resulting in a TD. Of course, it could be argued that Thompson should have had enough experience to avoid the blitz or take care of the ball.

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Pick 'Em

Post by 02Cat » December 6th, 2018, 12:17 pm

oscar wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 2:23 pm
Other than beating Texas twice, the Freeman teams were pretty average at best. Of the nine times he faced the likes of NU, KU, MU, only once was the game not a blowout. As I recall people were tired and vocal (not to the extent as they were in 2018) about how stale Coach Snyder and the team were and wanted a flashier style. History repeats, not saying Littrell will be as bad as Prince, but amazing how similar things are.
I don't think you should be pointing the finger at Josh Freeman in this scenario. Josh played pretty well overall for KSU. He wasn't perfect, but neither was Bishop. The team lost a lot of those games at a time when KU had it's best three year period in decades, a time when Mizzou had it's best three year period in decades. Prince did a really poor job and the play of all the players should be considered a reflection of that.
Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure. - George Carlin

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