#20 oSu @ #23 k-state

[KSUbetcha]

Klanderman is an above averge D Coordinator IMO. I know people have second guessed certain play calls for the defense this year & man v. zone. But there's no doubt in my mind his defenses have been a lot better the last couple of years. Maybe that's a result of better Jimmy's & Joe's but coaching has something to to with it too. NIL has a lot to do with all the personnel turbulence. What would our defense would be like with Savage in the backfield again?

[Gorhoops]

Sure is funny to come back here after the game and read through all of these posts and read posts from people who I truly believe think they are better football coaches than the guys at KSU. Let's be clear, Joe Klanderman is an outstanding D coordinator, lets not believe anyone who says otherwise. He does things early in games to bait people into certain things, then changes things up as the game goes along. Our defense completely stoned OSU after the first few possessions, which is normal. Spagnuelo does the exact same things. The Chiefs defense always seems to suck early in games and then badabing, things get shut down as the games go along.

You love Klanderman so much, you can have him. He's average at best. Judging by the fact that no one has ever come after him should tell ya something. The defense played better after many people screaming to switch to man coverage. At that point, the defense was more effective. Of note, Klanderman didn't make that change until we were ahead two scores. It could be argued that our offense significantly helped the defense out in this game. But you want Klanderman, you can have him. Is he the worst? No. Is he the best? No. He's average.

You should come around on game day and add you deep football insight.

I have no deep football knowledge, that is why I defer to the guys that are around the players every day, break down the film, make the calls, etc. One thing I do feel pretty confident in saying is that if a P4 defense came out and just played man defense 100% of the time, I have a feeling that would not be great over time. Pretty much every game I watch I feel like defenses are changing/disguising/shifting coverages from zone to man, man to zone, sometimes zone on one half of the field, man on the other, man underneath, zone over the top, and so on and so forth.

I also have no idea if anyone has come after Klanderman or not, and either does anyone else other than him and Coach Klieman. That stuff might get leaked, but it might not, none of us know.

Here is the team defense rankings in the last three seasons;
2023 - KSU ranked 27th out of 133 teams in overall defense
2022 - KSU ranked 29th out of 131 in overall defense
2021 - KSU ranked 23rd in overall defense out of 130.

Averaging mid 20's in total defense for 3 seasons is better than average.

[katlander]

It is a chess match and the other coaches are good players. I feel we when most of the chess matches, but it is not always easy.

[Tbonespop]

You love Klanderman so much, you can have him. He's average at best. Judging by the fact that no one has ever come after him should tell ya something. The defense played better after many people screaming to switch to man coverage. At that point, the defense was more effective. Of note, Klanderman didn't make that change until we were ahead two scores. It could be argued that our offense significantly helped the defense out in this game. But you want Klanderman, you can have him. Is he the worst? No. Is he the best? No. He's average.

You should come around on game day and add you deep football insight.

I have no deep football knowledge, that is why I defer to the guys that are around the players every day, break down the film, make the calls, etc. One thing I do feel pretty confident in saying is that if a P4 defense came out and just played man defense 100% of the time, I have a feeling that would not be great over time. Pretty much every game I watch I feel like defenses are changing/disguising/shifting coverages from zone to man, man to zone, sometimes zone on one half of the field, man on the other, man underneath, zone over the top, and so on and so forth.

I also have no idea if anyone has come after Klanderman or not, and either does anyone else other than him and Coach Klieman. That stuff might get leaked, but it might not, none of us know.

Here is the team defense rankings in the last three seasons;
2023 - KSU ranked 27th out of 133 teams in overall defense
2022 - KSU ranked 29th out of 131 in overall defense
2021 - KSU ranked 23rd in overall defense out of 130.

Averaging mid 20's in total defense for 3 seasons is better than average.

#1 I have never said that we should 100% play man coverage. I have said we are better at playing man than zone, which is accurate. I also said that if we had the talent to plan man coverage, you have the talent to play zone coverage better, which points to a schematic problem. #2 I have said many times over an over that you have to mix up your coverages with how much you play off the LOS to disguise your coverages, but as a whole in general, the CBs have to play closer to the LOS - in man and zone. #3 I always talk about how the DL and secondary have to work together to pressure the opposing QB. It makes no sense to bring pressure on the QB if the CBs are giving free releases to WRs who are wide open. There are many nuances when it comes to defensive football. It's actually quite fun to discuss IMO.

It's interesting that you measure the defense based on scoring defense. And while that is one metric, it's not a very good metric specific to defensive effectiveness because the biggest influence on the scoring defense is having a quality, experienced ball control offense to keep the ball away from the opposing offense so they can't score points. Point being, it's misleading and doesn't give a good picture on how effective the defense is at doing their job, which is simply to get stops and give the ball back to our offense.

I look at opponent 3rd down conversion rates: in 2024 we are 59th, 2023 we finished 25th (pretty good), 2022 - 86th, 2021 - 64th. 4 Year average 59th

I look at total yards allowed: 2024 - 53rd thus far, 2023 - 58th, 2022 - 34th, and 2021 - 87th, 4 year average 58th in the country

I also look at opposing QBR - which we have actually been pretty bad at in the 70-90 range nationally, but this is less of a metric I follow.

Bottom line is, when you factor out our ball control offense helping keep the opposing offense off the field and just focus on metrics of where our defense gets a stop and puts the ball back into our offenses hands, we're in the 55-60th on average over the last 4 years. That's pretty damn average if you ask me.

[Ksuminnesotacat]

3rd and forever champions ……

[Catalum]

I have no deep football knowledge, that is why I defer to the guys that are around the players every day, break down the film, make the calls, etc. One thing I do feel pretty confident in saying is that if a P4 defense came out and just played man defense 100% of the time, I have a feeling that would not be great over time. Pretty much every game I watch I feel like defenses are changing/disguising/shifting coverages from zone to man, man to zone, sometimes zone on one half of the field, man on the other, man underneath, zone over the top, and so on and so forth.

I also have no idea if anyone has come after Klanderman or not, and either does anyone else other than him and Coach Klieman. That stuff might get leaked, but it might not, none of us know.

Here is the team defense rankings in the last three seasons;
2023 - KSU ranked 27th out of 133 teams in overall defense
2022 - KSU ranked 29th out of 131 in overall defense
2021 - KSU ranked 23rd in overall defense out of 130.

Averaging mid 20's in total defense for 3 seasons is better than average.

#1 I have never said that we should 100% play man coverage. I have said we are better at playing man than zone, which is accurate. I also said that if we had the talent to plan man coverage, you have the talent to play zone coverage better, which points to a schematic problem. #2 I have said many times over an over that you have to mix up your coverages with how much you play off the LOS to disguise your coverages, but as a whole in general, the CBs have to play closer to the LOS - in man and zone. #3 I always talk about how the DL and secondary have to work together to pressure the opposing QB. It makes no sense to bring pressure on the QB if the CBs are giving free releases to WRs who are wide open. There are many nuances when it comes to defensive football. It's actually quite fun to discuss IMO.

It's interesting that you measure the defense based on scoring defense. And while that is one metric, it's not a very good metric specific to defensive effectiveness because the biggest influence on the scoring defense is having a quality, experienced ball control offense to keep the ball away from the opposing offense so they can't score points. Point being, it's misleading and doesn't give a good picture on how effective the defense is at doing their job, which is simply to get stops and give the ball back to our offense.

I look at opponent 3rd down conversion rates: in 2024 we are 59th, 2023 we finished 25th (pretty good), 2022 - 86th, 2021 - 64th. 4 Year average 59th

I look at total yards allowed: 2024 - 53rd thus far, 2023 - 58th, 2022 - 34th, and 2021 - 87th, 4 year average 58th in the country

I also look at opposing QBR - which we have actually been pretty bad at in the 70-90 range nationally, but this is less of a metric I follow.

Bottom line is, when you factor out our ball control offense helping keep the opposing offense off the field and just focus on metrics of where our defense gets a stop and puts the ball back into our offenses hands, we're in the 55-60th on average over the last 4 years. That's pretty damn average if you ask me.

Total yards mean little if you're beating them on the scoreboard. K-State is the only conference team with at least eight wins the last three seasons.....I'll take that.

This isn't the 90's when offenses could be held to <200 yards.

[Tbonespop]

#1 I have never said that we should 100% play man coverage. I have said we are better at playing man than zone, which is accurate. I also said that if we had the talent to plan man coverage, you have the talent to play zone coverage better, which points to a schematic problem. #2 I have said many times over an over that you have to mix up your coverages with how much you play off the LOS to disguise your coverages, but as a whole in general, the CBs have to play closer to the LOS - in man and zone. #3 I always talk about how the DL and secondary have to work together to pressure the opposing QB. It makes no sense to bring pressure on the QB if the CBs are giving free releases to WRs who are wide open. There are many nuances when it comes to defensive football. It's actually quite fun to discuss IMO.

It's interesting that you measure the defense based on scoring defense. And while that is one metric, it's not a very good metric specific to defensive effectiveness because the biggest influence on the scoring defense is having a quality, experienced ball control offense to keep the ball away from the opposing offense so they can't score points. Point being, it's misleading and doesn't give a good picture on how effective the defense is at doing their job, which is simply to get stops and give the ball back to our offense.

I look at opponent 3rd down conversion rates: in 2024 we are 59th, 2023 we finished 25th (pretty good), 2022 - 86th, 2021 - 64th. 4 Year average 59th

I look at total yards allowed: 2024 - 53rd thus far, 2023 - 58th, 2022 - 34th, and 2021 - 87th, 4 year average 58th in the country

I also look at opposing QBR - which we have actually been pretty bad at in the 70-90 range nationally, but this is less of a metric I follow.

Bottom line is, when you factor out our ball control offense helping keep the opposing offense off the field and just focus on metrics of where our defense gets a stop and puts the ball back into our offenses hands, we're in the 55-60th on average over the last 4 years. That's pretty damn average if you ask me.

Total yards mean little if you're beating them on the scoreboard. K-State is the only conference team with at least eight wins the last three seasons.....I'll take that.

This isn't the 90's when offenses could be held to <200 yards.

But if you are relying on your offense to keep the other offense off the field, how can you put a measuring stick on how good your DC is? Sure, the opposing offense gets 5 possessions a game and scores 24 points a game. Wouldn't you care about getting stops?

That's why I said one of the most important measurements I look at is opposing offense 3rd down conversions. Is the defense getting off the field by making a stop. Or, is our ball control keep away offense making the defense look better than it is? One is a placebo, the other isn't. When it comes down to defense getting a stop at the end of the game - do you want a defense that relies on the offense ability to control clock, or a defense that steps up and gets a stop when you need it?

I'll take the second. Ideally, I'd take both. Point being, tracking scoring defense metrics when the #1 contributing factor to that metric is your offense as opposed to how well the defense plays, is a problem - that is, if you care about good defense.

[tmcats]

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Highest Graded Big 12 Running Back in Week 5:

DJ Giddens, Kansas State: 83.5